Ok, I think I know what I want out of a new amp

Wyatt said:
They are the exact same thing.

The traditional Fender Mid pot is 10K. The Raw control just replaces that with a 50K. Allen used to use one pot one te Accomplices, now he uses two in series. Whether you use one pot or two, you get an identical range of mids and Raw.

But one pot means less chassis space for a smaller, lighter amp.

Just remember, without the Reverb, lose a mixing stage. Reverbless Princetons and Deluxes are hard to overdrive.
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The way it was explained to me, the Mids knob is a mids knob, while the Raw knob lifts the tone stack out of the signal. I don't want to dime my mids, and then lift the tone stack. But you know far more about this stuff than I do, so if you wouldn't mind explaining it to me again, I would greatly appreciate it. :)
 
I weighed my ADA Rocket which I could have sworn was under 30 pounds. Its the lightest amp I've run across. It's 36 pounds :(
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
The way it was explained to me, the Mids knob is a mids knob, while the Raw knob lifts the tone stack out of the signal. I don't want to dime my mids, and then lift the tone stack. But you know far more about this stuff than I do, so if you wouldn't mind explaining it to me again, I would greatly appreciate it. :)
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Nope.

MID pots don't work like that in passive Tone Stacks. A MID pot on a classic Fender/Marshall is nothing more a limited RAW control. The Fender/Marshall MID pot works be making the rest of the Tone stack less effective. It is a resistor between the rest of the Tone Stack (TREBLE pot/cap; BASS pot/cap; slope resistor; MID cap) and Ground. More resistance=less Tone Stack.

Fender used a 10K pot in large Fenders, 6.8K resistor in small Fenders (Vibroverb and below). If you replace those with a 50K-250K pot, MID because RAW. Allen just uses two pots in series...10K+250K, but the process works exactly the same as with one pot...112K from one pot is the same electronically as 8K+104K from two. As soon as you touch the RAW control on the Allen...you have max'ed out the MID pot.

Contact Winfield Thomas, ask about a non-Reverb Elizabeth with a larger Mid pot and a Master Volume.
 
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Wyatt said:
Nope.

MID pots don't work like that in passive Tone Stacks. A MID pot on a classic Fender/Marshall is nothing more a limited RAW control. The Fender/Marshall MID pot works be making the rest of the Tone stack less effective. It is a resistor between the rest of the Tone Stack (TREBLE pot/cap; BASS pot/cap; slope resistor; MID cap) and Ground. More resistance=less Tone Stack.

Fender used a 10K pot in large Fenders, 6.8K resistor in small Fenders (Vibroverb and below). If you replace those with a 50K-250K pot, MID because RAW. Allen just uses two pots in series...10K+250K, but the process works exactly the same as with one pot...112K from one pot is the same electronically as 8K+104K from two. As soon as you touch the RAW control on the Allen...you have max'ed out the MID pot.

Contact Winfield Thomas, ask about a non-Reverb Elizabeth with a larger Mid pot and a Master Volume.
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That makes sense. Thanks!
 
Wyatt said:
Nope.

MID pots don't work like that in passive Tone Stacks. A MID pot on a classic Fender/Marshall is nothing more a limited RAW control. The Fender/Marshall MID pot works be
Contact Winfield Thomas, ask about a non-Reverb Elizabeth with a larger Mid pot and a Master Volume.
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Lol, I used to jam with Winnie once in a while at blues jam in VT, he's a good dude. One jam he brought a bunch of his amps for people to use.

FWIW @Help!I'maRock! , just to add a picture to what Wyatt was talking about, here's the first preamp stage into a fender tone stack:

fendertonestack.jpg

Notice the mid control on the bottom (10k variable resistor (potentiometer) to ground). If that is disconnected from ground, that would be a "tone stack lift" and result in the full signal from the first preamp tube going into the next preamp stage. As Wyatt said, making that mid pot a 50k would have the effect of a regular mid control from 0-10k and then a RAW control going on up to 50k.

Hope that makes sense.
 
wagdog said:
Lol, I used to jam with Winnie once in a while at blues jam in VT, he's a good dude. One jam he brought a bunch of his amps for people to use.

FWIW @Help!I'maRock! , just to add a picture to what Wyatt was talking about, here's the first preamp stage into a fender tone stack:

View attachment 29093
Notice the mid control on the bottom (10k variable resistor (potentiometer) to ground). If that is disconnected from ground, that would be a "tone stack lift" and result in the full signal from the first preamp tube going into the next preamp stage. As Wyatt said, making that mid pot a 50k would have the effect of a regular mid control from 0-10k and then a RAW control going on up to 50k.

Hope that makes sense.
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Thanks for the visual. I really appreciate the explanation. :thu:
 
wagdog said:
Lol, I used to jam with Winnie once in a while at blues jam in VT, he's a good dude. One jam he brought a bunch of his amps for people to use.
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I knew Winfield offered a non-verb Deluxe and he had a compact chassis set up for 5 knobs (he uses the 5th on reverb models). Swapping out a larger MID pot is easy enough, it's just whether he will install a MV.Some builders don't offer substitutions.

IIRC, Ben Fargen used to offer a reverb-less, 20-watt Blackbird, but that was long ago. I don't think he even offers a Blackbird anymore (that was the amp that put him on the map).
 
RyanNo3 said:
Get the head. Or Victoria Amps?
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Based on the above posts regarding the Raw control I'm back looking at the Allen Chihuahua. He makes a 14 watt version with a single 6550.

I'm also looking at SF Musicmasters. They're the original Pro Jr. I don't want a 40 year old amp, but they're what I wanted my Vibro Champs to be.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
Based on the above posts regarding the Raw control I'm back looking at the Allen Chihuahua. He makes a 14 watt version with a single 6550.

I'm also looking at SF Musicmasters. They're the original Pro Jr. I don't want a 40 year old amp, but they're what I wanted my Vibro Champs to be.
Click to expand...

Remember, there are 2 different MM amps, one with 6v6 and one with 6AQ5 tubes. The ones with the regular black knobs are 6v6 and the silver knobs are 6AQ5s. They are really light.
 
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