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Ford was the smartest of the big 3 in that they saw the writing on the wall before the shit hit the fan and they mortgaged all of their physical assets to have some much needed cash on hand when things went south in the economy. GM and Chrysler did not do this, and they both ended up with a TARP bailout, but Chrysler got theirs with the condition of Fiat taking over the company.
 
I am sure I am the minority here, and elsewhere, but I did not want the bailout's to go to the automakers. I know that it would have had a huge impact upon the economy but I think that we would have muddled through. We may have lost GM and Chrysler but we would have replaced them with other auto makers or new auto makers.

Here is why I was against it: I am not a truck guy. It is not as if I despise trucks, they are useful, it is that I like driving cars, not vehicles that take two counties to turn around in. I have very little use for a truck in my personal life.

Thus, in the mid 90's I noticed the uptick in truck sales. That is when the SUV and pick-up market exploded. At the time I lived in the High Desert of San Bernardino County. I initially attributed the increase in trucks on the road due to the region I lived in: A lot of ranches, construction and the apparent need for trucks. Then I noticed it everywhere; firefighters I worked with were buying big Ford PowerStroke diesels but they never took them off-road or used them to haul stuff. Just drove them like a car: Point to point on pavement with no load.

As time progressed I realized that the Big 3 were pushing oversized station wagons and trucks on us without regard to mileage or fuel prices. I remember the 70's when gas shot up from about .45 cents a gallon to near $1.00/gallon. I remember the long lines, the rationing and the advent of the econobox car. I was seeing the opposite of the econobox and a future that included vehicles that were going to be too expensive to drive.

Mind you gas and diesel prices were, somewhat, stable but if anyone knew their history then they would know that the prices would not last.

When I moved from the high desert to the temecula area in 2003 it meant that I would have to drive 100 miles door to door to my closest fire station in Apple Valley. I drove a Honda Civic. Then the gas prices climbed and kept climbing.

And the Big 3 kept selling gas hogs.

That is not, in any sense of the word, good business strategy. Sure, they still had a bunch of people (fools?) that were willing to buy gas hogs (for the status?) but many of those vehicles were sold at a loss or parked soon after.

If the Big 3 had done what the European and Japanese auto makers were doing: Manufacturing high performance vehicles with better technology and, in most cases, better gas mileage; they would have been able to compete, IMO.

They did not. They kept selling outdated tech wrapped in 0% financing offers that would be cost prohibitive when the gas prices went up or the economy took a dive.

Ford was smart. They saw the writing on the wall and adjusted their business plan to reflect the future. Almost too late. They are now making good, competitive cars that I would be happy to consider buying. GM not so much. They still seem to be hanging onto the old Big 3 arrogance. I think that Fiat is going to dump Chrysler sooner or later, unless the new "Pony" cars can re-ignite the passion for Chrysler among the car buyers.

It works now, but can they sustain it? Remember the 80's, Iaccoca and the K-cars? Seemed to help Chrysler a bit, especially when they used Mitsu parts and cars to rebadge, but they were always the red-headed stepchild of the auto world. Just ok cars that never seemed to measure up.

The name is tainted. I don't think the name will last very long.
 
Some good and interesting points there.

There really aren't any parallels to the Iacocca bail out/rebound. The former was a phantom improvement. A brilliant marketing plan with no real substance behind it. The cars that MOPAR produced in that first post bail out era were absolute garbage. The Mitsubishi partnership didn't help at all, because Mitsubishi was shit at the time too. If anything, it compounded the shit factor.

My mom bought a new LeBaron convertible in 86, and it spent 3 weeks out of the first month at the dealership for problems I'm pretty sure they were never actually able to diagnose, let alone fix. She ended up making them take the POS back, and tracking down and returning her Lincoln that she had traded in on it.

I had been an overt MOPAR detractor for the entirety of the next 25 years. There's no sugar coating it, they built shit cars. Ugly shit cars.

The Daimler Chrysler debacle actually made matters even worse. Not only did the Chrysler family of cars fail to improve, but the platform and components sharing made the Mercedes-Benz cars of that period bloody awful. Few know or remember, but during that time, Mercedes plummeted to the bottom of virtually every quality rating media. They had to get out before Chrysler took them into deep water that was a sure death sentence.

With the FIAT takeover, it is a very different story. I have had to begrudgingly write some extremely positive reviews on several MOPAR automobiles that made unthinkable leaps in style, build quality, ride comfort, handling etc... one by one, the old turd burgers are being replaced with new platform cars that really are quite impressive. I think the future for Chrysler group overall is pretty bright. I don't think FIAT will dump them but, if the FIAT branded cars themselves don't wildly exceed expectations, I could absolutely see them halting US sales once again.

That would break my heart.
 
Say what you may about Chrysler, but I've got a 2004 Dodge Stratus that has 246,000 miles on it and still starts up as soon as you turn the key, has as much power now as it did 11 years ago, and still gets over 30 mpg.

The only recurring problem it has had is that the rotors like to warp if you don't have your lug nuts at exactly the right torque.

That, and the dashboard is literally pulling apart at the seams.

Mechanically, structurally (absolutely no rust), electrically, it has been a great car. We financed it for 6 years and didn't figure we'd get it paid off before it died. Here we are, still driving it 5 years after our last car payment.
 
Say what you may about Chrysler, but I've got a 2004 Dodge Stratus that has 246,000 miles on it and still starts up as soon as you turn the key, has as much power now as it did 11 years ago, and still gets over 30 mpg.

The only recurring problem it has had is that the rotors like to warp if you don't have your lug nuts at exactly the right torque.

That, and the dashboard is literally pulling apart at the seams.

Mechanically, structurally (absolutely no rust), electrically, it has been a great car. We financed it for 6 years and didn't figure we'd get it paid off before it died. Here we are, still driving it 5 years after our last car payment.
That's actually really cool. There are always exceptions to every rule, and certainly not every single car they put out was awful.
 
That's actually really cool. There are always exceptions to every rule, and certainly not every single car they put out was awful.

Yeah, I'm as surprised as anybody that the old girl is still going strong. I mostly drive the 2000 Ford Ranger (with 196,000 miles on it) to work, but today I decided to drive the Stratus. I've got a squealing belt on it, but I'll be damned if it isn't still a pretty fun car to drive too.

This was what the car looked like when we bought it. It now has a few dents and dings, the center caps are missing on the wheels, the paint isn't as shiny, and the passenger side headlight is fogged up, but other than those things, it still looks, and drives pretty much the same.

Like I said, the dashboard is a mess, though.

Stratus4.jpg


The only major repair (knock on wood) we've had to do is a new clutch about 100k miles ago. I've also replaced a wheel bearing, an alternator, battery, and front brakes and rotors about 5 times. Like I said, the rotors warp if you are off by even 5 ft/lbs on the lug nut torque.
 
The only major repair (knock on wood) we've had to do is a new clutch about 100k miles ago. I've also replaced a wheel bearing, an alternator, battery, and front brakes and rotors about 5 times. Like I said, the rotors warp if you are off by even 5 ft/lbs on the lug nut torque.

Wow, that is a pretty minor list of repairs for so many miles. Pretty much all of those are normal 'consumable' type parts. The rotor thing is pretty bizarre.
 
Wow, that is a pretty minor list of repairs for so many miles. Pretty much all of those are normal 'consumable' type parts. The rotor thing is pretty bizarre.

Yeah, I know.

Best vehicle I've ever owned.

It's also the only brand new car I've ever bought.

I'm tempted to get rid of it just to get it off of our taxes and insurance, but then I'm also tempted to keep it until it dies just to see how long it will go.

I'm pretty sure it needs rotors again now, and maybe a wheel bearing. I won't drive it through summer because the air conditioner doesn't work. I need to get a new belt on it at some point.

I'm willing to put $100 into it here and there, but when the tires are done and it's a $400 bill, that may be the end.
 
I had an 88 Sundance that was a good car until it blew out the heater hose driving over the mountains (I didn't notice until it was too late) and the head warped. Then it leaked oil and I got rid of it in 97 and bought a Acura Integra GSR. Now there's a car I wish was still made. I have 130K miles on it (it didn't drive the mountain roads after 2001 so I went from 25K or so a year to 10ish) and it has a similar minor list of fixes needed. I've put brakes on it once (at 110K) still have the original clutch though it's getting long in the tooth and is still a blast to drive. The most I've had to change are batteries (5 2 of which lasted less than the warranty,oil and tires)
 
Just picked the car up from the other dealership. They found a total of 3 exposed wires, any one of which could have created a very bad scenario.

Anyway, they were great, the car works. I am thankful that they stepped up.

Now to deal with captain douchebag. ..
 
I had a 2001 4-door Dodge Stratus, and yes, it was a good car like Greg says. I would get 32 mpg @ 70-72 mph on the interstate, though mileage would drop significantly in city driving. I did almost no repairs to the car and drove it 'til it had 150,000 on it. I did replace the rotors a couple of times though when they warped after extreme braking trying to (successfully) avoid some mishaps...deer jumping out in front of me, stupid drivers, etc. I did not know that about the torque on the lug nuts.
 
Just picked the car up from the other dealership. They found a total of 3 exposed wires, any one of which could have created a very bad scenario.

Anyway, they were great, the car works. I am thankful that they stepped up.

Now to deal with captain douchebag. ..
I await your retelling of the tale with bated breath. Don't take too long as I have been following this with interest.
 
I look into the mailbox and what do I see?

A check from Baker Auto Group staring back at me!

I took it to the bank, to see if it would clear.

The teller said "no problem, they do their banking here".

So I cashed it on the spot, so I could turn it into bills.

Then I made a cash deposit that gave me quite a thrill.

So now my refund's paid, and the next step can begin.

I'm 'bout to stick it up they ass, and break it off within.

Time to pay the piper motherfuckers.
 
I look into the mailbox and what do I see?

A check from Baker Auto Group staring back at me!

I took it to the bank, to see if it would clear.

The teller said "no problem, they do their banking here".

So I cashed it on the spot, so I could turn it into bills.

Then I made a cash deposit that gave me quite a thrill.

So now my refund's paid, and the next step can begin.

I'm 'bout to stick it up they ass, and break it off within.

Time to pay the piper motherfuckers.
srs lulz there.
 
I look into the mailbox and what do I see?

A check from Baker Auto Group staring back at me!

I took it to the bank, to see if it would clear.

The teller said "no problem, they do their banking here".

So I cashed it on the spot, so I could turn it into bills.

Then I made a cash deposit that gave me quite a thrill.

So now my refund's paid, and the next step can begin.

I'm 'bout to stick it up they ass, and break it off within.

Time to pay the piper motherfuckers.
Gee, this reminds me of a college paper...:embarrassed:
 
Well, had the car back for a week now, all is well. Everything works exactly as it should.

Refund checks have all cleared the bank. Those refunds were only for the bogus warranty and gap bullshit that we canceled (which they pro-rated), and for the aftermarket alarm that they removed.

Captain Douchebag has made it clear that despite his earlier written promise, there will be no further compensation. Not even for the down time.

I'm not surprised, and I'm not generally someone who asks for compensatory damages, but considering the absurd amount of utter bullshit we had to go through, and the fact that they sent us home in a car that was undeniably unsafe because of the exposed wiring, I think any gesture on their part would be a given.
 
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