is there a home-brew / zymurgy thread around here?

Oh, and D-girl is on "Spring Break" this week (though it's not quite the same for a Kindergarten teacher as it was when we were college students. :( But she sat around having a few beers today and thinking of names for our beer and "brewery".

She came up with Ocean, Sand, and Pale Ale for the first brew. And she used her Kindergarten teacher skills for this concept drawing, haha.
OceanSandandPaleAle_zps84551fff.jpg
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And the brewery is a mash-up of our last names:
Botdams Up Brewery

Now that the hard part is done, if I only had $1,000,000 and some good recipes.... :idea:
 
Cool logo!

I just bottled 5 gallons of my Red Ale. It was at final gravity and crystal clear, so I figured it was bottling time. I think I am going to call it "Utility Sink Ale".
 
So let's talk sanitation. All I read talks about the two pillars of brewing. One being cleanliness (cleaning and sanitation). The other being fermentation (plenty healthy cells on the proper yeast and the correct temperature). After that, the rest is just following a recipe for the most part. Now, fermentation I'll have taken control of since I have a chest freezer and temp controller on the way. So what I'm interested in now is sanitation and cleaning.

What's you routine? Chemicals? One thing I'm most curious about is how do you store your equipment between batches? Any tricks to make things easier? Common mistakes to watch for? How easy/hard is it really to infect a batch?

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I use Star San at home for most things. I also autoclave a lot of stuff at work the day before I do a brew. For cleaning I use the PBW cleaner. I don't sanitize as much stuff as most people, as I have access to sterile, individually wrapped large pipettes (in place of a beer thief, of example), flasks, etc.

I think people are a little nuts on most brewing sites as far as sanitation goes. I watch the videos where people sanitize all their stuff, then stick their arm down inside the fermenter, or let their lid touch the floor without re-santizing. The sterile technique I have seen in most brewing videos is pretty poor. A good example is people talking about sanitizing their bottling wands for 15 minutes, then leaving their bottling bucket open to the air for 20 minutes of bottle filling, while the end of the wand rests on their kitchen floor. Why did you sanitize all the stuff again? Anyway, I follow the instructions for sanitizing my cleaned equipment, then I use it. I doubt a freshly boiled wort with hundreds of billions of healthy yeast has much to worry about in terms of contamination. I guess the fact that most people don't have contamination problems tells you brewing is a pretty robust process. Heck, those Belgian monks were doing it in a musty church basement with zero knowledge that yeast even existed, let alone bacteria.

I usually store my stuff cleaned and dry, I rinse it once with water, then I sanitize and use it.
 
I use Star San at home for most things. I also autoclave a lot of stuff at work the day before I do a brew. For cleaning I use the PBW cleaner. I don't sanitize as much stuff as most people, as I have access to sterile, individually wrapped large pipettes (in place of a beer thief, of example), flasks, etc.

I think people are a little nuts on most brewing sites as far as sanitation goes. I watch the videos where people sanitize all their stuff, then stick their arm down inside the fermenter, or let their lid touch the floor without re-santizing. The sterile technique I have seen in most brewing videos is pretty poor. A good example is people talking about sanitizing their bottling wands for 15 minutes, then leaving their bottling bucket open to the air for 20 minutes of bottle filling, while the end of the wand rests on their kitchen floor. Why did you sanitize all the stuff again? Anyway, I follow the instructions for sanitizing my cleaned equipment, then I use it. I doubt a freshly boiled wort with hundreds of billions of healthy yeast has much to worry about in terms of contamination. I guess the fact that most people don't have contamination problems tells you brewing is a pretty robust process. Heck, those Belgian monks were doing it in a musty church basement with zero knowledge that yeast even existed, let alone bacteria.

I usually store my stuff cleaned and dry, I rinse it once with water, then I sanitize and use it.

Yeah, I use Barkeepers friend for cleaning. StarSan for sanitizing. And it's the stuff like you mention that has me wondering what others do. I found myself, during the process, having to continually lay something down, then re-sanitize it. Having D-girl around for the extra set of hands is nice. But then I also wonder 'How long is this fermenter good out in the open air after sanitized and drained before it needs sanitized again? It's very much like cooking a multi-course meal in having to plan everything so all the pieces are ready and come together when you need them.

I don't worry too much about pre-boil, since everything will be killed by the heat. But there in the last 15 minutes+ you need to put the wort chiller in the boil to sanitize it, make sure your yeast is ready, sanitize your fermenter one last time, put a lid on it if you can (sanitize the lid), sanitize any strainers or tubes or other wort transferring tools, make sure you late addition hops are ready and measured out, etc.

My method has been to have one of those 6 gallon buckets filled with StarSan. At the beginning of the brew day everything small that can fit goes in it (airlocks, bungs, tubes/hoses, strainer, spoon, measuring cups, etc.). Then there's a spray bottle of StarSan sitting around to get other things with. The fermenter is clean and covered, maybe sprayed with sanitizer, but not "officially" sanitized yet. There's hardly anything I need that I can't fit in the bucket, and then I can just pull it out, shake it off, and it's ready to use in under 30 seconds. I think my next brew I'll set out a piece of aluminum foil and spray it down with sanitizer, using it as a surface to set things momentarily that I don't want to put back in the bucket and have to rinse again. I can just set them down then spray them over with the bottle for the short time that they're not being used. So after the boil, as the wort is chilling, as I need things I just grab them from the sanitizer bucket. After I sanitize the fermenter I also sanitize a bung or lid and put that in place to keep as much air out as I can until the wort will get splashed in.

So I think I'm doing alright in that respect. But after it's all said and done, I'm not really sure what to do with the equipment. I have that swamp cooler bin that I can fit the plastic buckets and just about everything else in. I'll likely just store it all in there between brews. But I can't fit my carboy in there as well. How do you guys store your carboys? I was thinking if I put a bung in there it won't air out and that could be bad. If I don't put a bung in, air and bacteria can get it. Things are sold where you can store them upside down on a holder. I guess that's about ideal. But I don't have a dedicated brew room or shed. I'd rather pack this stuff away for the few weeks between brew days.

I'm probably just over thinking it. I should probably just let what may happen to it in between and just worry about cleaning it extra well before each use. But if I can take an extra 2 minutes to make my life easier down the road and require less cleaning, that's something I'd like to do.
 
^^ I store everything in my (dirty) garage. I clean it well with a good brewing cleaner, then DRY it with a towel, and then just store it open. Probably the best thing in terms of preventing bacterial and fungal growth is dry conditions. Bacteria and molds are simply not going to grow without the moisture. At work, we autoclave and store things with openings covered in foil (sterilized in place), but that is a bit of a specialized application, and we have the equipment to do it. At home, I would suggest just store stuff clean, DRY, and, if you like, covered with what you have (to prevent dust, if you go a long time between uses). I don't worry much about the dust that might settle in things, as I can just add the acidic star san to it and kill off whatever might be in the dust. Remember, you can sterilize dirt, and all you care about is opportunistic microbes in the wort, so a tiny fleck of dust isn't going to hurt anything.
 
IMO for the average homebrewer that doesn't brew in a chicken coop, your gear is the primary source of infection and not necessarily setting something down for a few seconds. Guys that fail to clean equipment properly and later fail to sanitize it during cold side tasks are the ones who get infections. The guys that never disassemble their autosiphons, reuse cruddy hoses for a decade, don't let equipment dry before storage, etc.

I like starsan as it has a really short contact time requirement, reusable, can be sprayed and safe for your beer and safe even to drink. Diluted bleach is an effective and cheaper sanitizer but has a risk of off-flavors in your beer if you leave bleach behind. A wallpaper tray is handy for hoses, autosiphons, etc since you can sanitize long objects w/ out needing gallons of sanitizer. Anything I set down during cold side tasks goes in to starsan.

Charlie Tally (guy behind 5 star) did a podcast a few years ago discussing sanitization topics that's worth a listen.

You can probably brew dozens of batches with zero sanitization and not get an infection but why chance it when it's so easy & cheap to prevent?
 
IMO for the average homebrewer that doesn't brew in a chicken coop, your gear is the primary source of infection and not necessarily setting something down for a few seconds. Guys that fail to clean equipment properly and later fail to sanitize it during cold side tasks are the ones who get infections. The guys that never disassemble their autosiphons, reuse cruddy hoses for a decade, don't let equipment dry before storage, etc.

I like starsan as it has a really short contact time requirement, reusable, can be sprayed and safe for your beer and safe even to drink. Diluted bleach is an effective and cheaper sanitizer but has a risk of off-flavors in your beer if you leave bleach behind. A wallpaper tray is handy for hoses, autosiphons, etc since you can sanitize long objects w/ out needing gallons of sanitizer. Anything I set down during cold side tasks goes in to starsan.

Charlie Tally (guy behind 5 star) did a podcast a few years ago discussing sanitization topics that's worth a listen.

You can probably brew dozens of batches with zero sanitization and not get an infection but why chance it when it's so easy & cheap to prevent?

I'll have to check that podcast out later, blocked at work (unless it's also uploaded to Youtube, than I should be able to listen).

I guess I just needed to hear a few brewers say not to stress it too much. I needed to get a feel for how easy/hard it really is to get an infected batch. I'm sure there are rare oddity cases where you do everything right and something happens to infect it, and the opposite where you brew in a chicken coop/dank basement and open ferment and it turns out just fine. But it's good to hear that most succesful batches aren't doing any more in that realm than I already am.

Thanks guys,
 
I use a variety of stuff - StarSan is great and I use it loads to sanitise clean stuff

I use a perfume free oxy cleaner from the poundshop to help clean stuff up. This needs to be rinsed a lot then sanitised with star san.

I use thin bleach to soak my fermenters every so often - bleach is great, it kills most things and cleans most things, then I rinse it loads, then use a sodium metabisulfite solution to rinse it out, then rinse it a lot again, then sanitise with starsan. This is a hangover from before star san was available, but I've never had any problems with it. And bleach is really effective.


I know that the brewing network talk down bleach a lot (they are sponsored by five star chemicals....), but a lot of pro breweries use it for good reason - it's cheap and incredibly effective at killing stuff. But yes, you have to make sure it's rinsed off/neutralised.

Same with dry yeast, they talk it down a lot despite it being far cheaper and easier and quicker and more robust in storage (they are sponsored by White Labs....) The only thing it lacks is variety. which is a big problem tbf

I also bake metal things like strainers, tea balls, collanders etc on brew day in my oven. Because it's easy.
 
Oh yeah, don't worry too much. A huge amount of beer in the uk if fermented in open fermenters, the only thing protecting the beer is the krausen, they skim it and all the vinegar flies off...still makes great beer.
 
I know that the brewing network talk down bleach a lot (they are sponsored by five star chemicals....), but a lot of pro breweries use it for good reason - it's cheap and incredibly effective at killing stuff. But yes, you have to make sure it's rinsed off/neutralised.

Actually most US breweries do not use bleach because it can react w/ stainless steel & cause pitting...and most commercial breweries are based around stainless kettles, tanks, piping, fittings, etc. I'd imagine this is fairly standard across the industry, globally.
 
Oh I meant caustic soda

most breweries use that no?

You can still use bleach, just don't use it with aluminium or extended contact with stainless I think

It's excellent with buckets and glass anyway


been in the pub since lunch so I'll just stfu for now :embarrassed:
 
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Yeah, caustic is used for cleaning in many commercial breweries.

Bleach definitely has its place for the home brewer. I'll soak my hoses in a dilute bleach solution once or twice a year.
 
Yeah fair enough


My mum, who is a geneticist so I always assume knows about anything remotely science based:facepalm: , calls bleach "caustic" which is where I think I got a bit confused. Also like I say I'm a bit pissed


Currently drinking a homebrew strong english ale. Not bad, a tad confused though. Need to let it age a bit longer
 
Yeah, bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is a caustic liquid, but it isn't the same thing as caustic soda (sodium hydroxide). Both are really good at disinfecting stuff. Caustic just means that something is capable of chemically dissolving organic tissue.
 
chlorine dioxide, iodophor, peracetic acid, quaternary ammonium & peroxyacetic acid (starsan) are common industry sanitizers
 
So I gave a pint sample of the JBA to a couple co-workers; the guy who got the other half of the yeast bay order and another guy who is a huge craft beer fanatic. Two thumbs up and both of them loved it. "Fantastic" :thu:
 
Thats definitely a recipe I'm going to have to try soon. (Extract version) I'm letting Dgirl pick the next brew we do, though.

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