I'm getting cold feet with the Axe FX!!!

Soooooo... I got the Axe FX on Tuesday. I was about to spend about an hour with it... wasn't able to come with a nice lead tone that I was happy with. I watched some videos on setting up presets and how the unit worked and I was able to come up with a pretty nice lead tone the following day using the SLO 100 amp, some delay and some drive hitting the amp. It sounded better than anything I had done the day before.

Then it dawned on me... I have no time to mess around with this. Again, I am lucky if I get more than 15 min a day to play... I pretty much exhausted an entire week's worth of time on this one patch.

Then I compared it to my 5150 iii and it was no contest. I was just so much happier with the 5150 iii.

I ended up putting the Axe Fx up for sale and it sold within a day.

I can see how it would have tons of uses, but it's just not a good product for me. I'm not a tweaker and I just don't have the time to commit to learning it.
 
mystixboi1 said:
I can see how it would have tons of uses, but it's just not a good product for me. I'm not a tweaker and I just don't have the time to commit to learning it.
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This sums up me as well. I hate for my amps to have more than 2 knobs. I have a Fuzz with 4 knobs and that is too much (but it sounds too good to let go). I don't want to spend all day dialing in a tone, I want to play.
 
Tweaking sounds is like running scales and working with a metronome. Not everyone wants to do it but for those that do you can always tell the difference.
 
Scott_Abene said:
Tweaking sounds is like running scales and working with a metronome. Not everyone wants to do it but for those that do you can always tell the difference.
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I wouldn't put those in the same category.

You can find a good producer or engineer whose spent that time tweaking and knows how to get you a great sound.

You can't have someone else play your scales and keep you on the down beat.

I spend a great deal of time turning knobs and trying out different gear, but I'm pretty well done with shit that can't be done in the "first layer or two". Meaning I don't mind dialing in knobs, or occasionally going A/B/A.../B.../Both... but when shit is 4 layers deep or requires a computer interface... fuck it. That's for someone else to deal with and me to plug into later.
 
baimun said:
I spend a great deal of time turning knobs and trying out different gear, but I'm pretty well done with shit that can't be done in the "first layer or two". Meaning I don't mind dialing in knobs, or occasionally going A/B/A.../B.../Both... but when shit is 4 layers deep or requires a computer interface... fuck it. That's for someone else to deal with and me to plug into later.
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yeah man... when i got to the page about where i wanted the mic set up on a the speaker cone, i was like "What da fack?!?!!?".
 
baimun said:
I wouldn't put those in the same category.

You can find a good producer or engineer whose spent that time tweaking and knows how to get you a great sound.

You can't have someone else play your scales and keep you on the down beat.

I spend a great deal of time turning knobs and trying out different gear, but I'm pretty well done with shit that can't be done in the "first layer or two". Meaning I don't mind dialing in knobs, or occasionally going A/B/A.../B.../Both... but when shit is 4 layers deep or requires a computer interface... fuck it. That's for someone else to deal with and me to plug into later.
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I wouldn't put those in the same category.

I would...

You can find a good producer or engineer whose spent that time tweaking and knows how to get you a great sound.

Wow, this in my opinion is the biggest mistake that a player could ever make. This is like letting your mother pick out your clothes for college. Sure there are a couple good ones out there but then there are the rest

You can't have someone else play your scales and keep you on the down beat.

Once again in English please.

I spend a great deal of time turning knobs and trying out different gear, but I'm pretty well done with shit that can't be done in the "first layer or two". Meaning I don't mind dialing in knobs, or occasionally going A/B/A.../B.../Both... but when shit is 4 layers deep or requires a computer interface... fuck it. That's for someone else to deal with and me to plug into later.

It honestly does not matter what you are using for an amp. The time that you put into your sound and your playing is ultimately what counts.

Personally when I step onto a stage the very last thing that I want to think about is tweaking this or that on stage. I want it to sound like it should. I want to do the minimal amount of work on stage while I am playing. That means minimal tap dancing.

Sometimes even opening my eyes is too much work on stage. So to me it all boils down to preparation and prevention of Gremlins.
 
I'm with Chad. I'm the farthest thing from a pro, and like you I only get a few minutes of non-productive play time a day, if that. My main amp for years has had 2 knobs, and it sounds killer. I think the people that can dial in this system sound amazing, certainly better than I ever will, but I don't have the drive or time to make it worth it.
 
Scott_Abene said:
Personally when I step onto a stage the very last thing that I want to think about is tweaking this or that on stage. I want it to sound like it should. I want to do the minimal amount of work on stage while I am playing. That means minimal tap dancing.
Sometimes even opening my eyes is too much work on stage. So to me it all boils down to preparation and prevention of Gremlins.
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That is exactly why I would not want something like the Axe Fx. Every room sounds different. You get all of your patches or scenes set in your house or your practice space and then you get to the gig and the room has a completely different sound and feel. Now how do you get everything tweaked right before you go on? I have a couple of dirt boxes with 3 knobs and and an amp with 2. I can get mine right for what ever room I am in, in about 2 minutes because my setup is simple and I know it, it didn't take me weeks and weeks to get the sounds I need.
 
My experience with the AXE FXII so far is that it sounds exactly the same every time. Unlike my dozens of other amps.

Once it is set up and put through the monitors and house there is little variance of sound / tone.

In the last year I have played outdoor venues, small clubs, large clubs and theater venues. The Axe FXII sounded absolutely the same in every venue.

I can't say the same for my Marshalls, GK's, Rivera's, KRANK's etc.
 
Scott_Abene said:
Wow, this in my opinion is the biggest mistake that a player could ever make. This is like letting your mother pick out your clothes for college. Sure there are a couple good ones out there but then there are the rest
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We may be comparing apples and oranges.... Knowing how to dial in your own gear is vital, and knowing when what you hear in the monitors is coming across properly is different than overstepping boundaries and telling a soundman or producer that you know their world better than they do. I like to work as a team.

Scott_Abene said:
Once again in English please.
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Sometimes it's better to focus on your task at hand then to try and wear every single hat and be distracted with everything going on.

Scott_Abene said:
It honestly does not matter what you are using for an amp. The time that you put into your sound and your playing is ultimately what counts.

Sometimes even opening my eyes is too much work on stage. So to me it all boils down to preparation and prevention of Gremlins.
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Ultimately I think we both agree on this. It takes time to know your gear and you don't want to be fiddling needlessly on stage. Sound is organic and changes from room to room. There's places where I love having computer control (we use an Allen and Heath digital mixer with several saved scenes and motorized faders so soundcheck is already 3/4th of the way dialed in at different venues.) but man I hate looking for the right led or button on a dark stage. Personally, I like the option of being able to quickly turn a knob versus punching up menus on a tiny screen.

Rock on!
 
I DO know the soundman's world better than he does 93.6% of the time.

Anyway, playing guitar ain't like driving race cars. A race car driver doesn't have to know how to tune his engine, he just needs to know how to drive fast.

If, as a guitarist, you can't dial in your own sound, you're only half a player.

As for having to retweak your settings with a modeler for each room, that's utter nonsense. This has not been my experience at all.

If anything, a little bit of post EQ by the sound guy for the house monitors should easily negate any perceived tonal deficiency.

The only related issue I've had with modelers is in final output volume across a broad range of patches. If I program patches at home, at typical bedroom volume levels, it's quite hard to notice mismatched volume levels unless they are glaring.

Sure enough, I get to the rehearsal studio with the volume cranked, and realize that several patches need a quick volume adjustment. This is easily accomplished in a matter of minutes, and is one of the reasons why rehearsal is important.
 
OGG said:
The only related issue I've had with modelers is in final output volume across a broad range of patches. If I program patches at home, at typical bedroom volume levels, it's quite hard to notice mismatched volume levels unless they are glaring.

Sure enough, I get to the rehearsal studio with the volume cranked, and realize that several patches need a quick volume adjustment. This is easily accomplished in a matter of minutes, and is one of the reasons why rehearsal is important.
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Well said
 
Baimun, I think you're hitting on a truism regarding some producers and engineers. It's not uncommon for studio guys to use house gear to get the sound the producer wants for a record. Similarly, it's not uncommon for players of all experience a skill levels to be introduced to new gear and sounds based on a given producer's: gear collection, that of studio, or of a provider that they use to supply instruments. I read about s Gary Brauer/Bauer (ower?) that had a collection of stellar (vintage, custom, and even production gear he liked) guitars and amps that he rented out to studios or bands for recording. So folks come in with their gear and sound, but might end up recording on completely different gear with a completely different sound.

The above also speaks to something that a lot of musicians can have a hard time hearing that their beloved tone is not all that great. I think we all like or even love players whose tone isn't something we like or aspire to. In some cases people hate it...I remember reading about and talking to people that love Mike Stern's playing, but despise his tone. I've always been a Vai fan, but I've never wanted to sound like him. What we think is awesome tone doesn't always translate to listeners.
 
When I was making a living from playing and spending most of my week in the studio playing on commercials or other bands music I would often use whatever rig that the studio had and go with what the producer wanted.

I did this because I was being paid and the guy that writes the check is always right. They can call all the shots because they are paying my mortgage.

Most engineers that I have met are pretty plug and play when it comes to instrument sounds. They have their set ways. I have found that knowing your mics and amps is a good thing when working with them. I have often spent time with the engineer in the live room going over sounds and tones to make sure what ends up on the final product sounds like what was coming out of the speakers in the live room. Most times when I have put trust into the engineer I have been disappointed in the final product.

There have been studios over the years and producers over the years that I have learned a lot from. I got to do quite a few projects out at Rick Wakes studio on Long Island. The first time out there I brought my rig. The rest of the times I brought my guitars and nothing else. Why? Because the collection of vintage amps / mics / effects out at that studio were simply amazing. The sound that they got there was simply superb and I had no issues with ever getting a great sound.

One of the tracks that I have always been proud of was a Lucia Cifarelli (later of KMFDM fame) demo that I played on for her. It was my 1967 Gibson SJ Deluxe and my Yellow Vai. The acoustic sound I love and the 1957 Fender Vibrolux screamed for the electric track.

When I think about sounds today and replicating them via a modeler I use experiences like the above to build tones.

At this point I guess that I am just rambling so I will stop.
 
Scott_Abene said:
When I was making a living from playing and spending most of my week in the studio playing on commercials or other bands music I would often use whatever rig that the studio had and go with what the producer wanted.

I did this because I was being paid and the guy that writes the check is always right. They can call all the shots because they are paying my mortgage.

Most engineers that I have met are pretty plug and play when it comes to instrument sounds. They have their set ways. I have found that knowing your mics and amps is a good thing when working with them. I have often spent time with the engineer in the live room going over sounds and tones to make sure what ends up on the final product sounds like what was coming out of the speakers in the live room. Most times when I have put trust into the engineer I have been disappointed in the final product.

There have been studios over the years and producers over the years that I have learned a lot from. I got to do quite a few projects out at Rick Wakes studio on Long Island. The first time out there I brought my rig. The rest of the times I brought my guitars and nothing else. Why? Because the collection of vintage amps / mics / effects out at that studio were simply amazing. The sound that they got there was simply superb and I had no issues with ever getting a great sound.

One of the tracks that I have always been proud of was a Lucia Cifarelli (later of KMFDM fame) demo that I played on for her. It was my 1967 Gibson SJ Deluxe and my Yellow Vai. The acoustic sound I love and the 1957 Fender Vibrolux screamed for the electric track.

When I think about sounds today and replicating them via a modeler I use experiences like the above to build tones.

At this point I guess that I am just rambling so I will stop.
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You are far mor experienced than I will ever be, but from all the reading and some playing I've done over the years you sound spot on. Getting and dialing sound is something you learn and many producers and engineers can help you with learning. Sometimes their objectivity and/or subjectivity regarding your sound or what they want to hear can teach you a lot (even if it's just that the given person is a dick).

Everyone can learn to shape their sound and for some folks it's just a guitar and an amp while others use a ton of gear ( and, obviously, everything in between). There is no absolute right or wrong way, but the more you know, the better off you'll be, especially on the pro and semi-pro level.
 
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