I bought something I normally wouldn't.

Mark Wein

Mark Wein

Grand Poobah
Staff member
But for $28 I can play Metallica with my students once a week during classes and when it dies I can throw it in the trash and buy a new one. I had a student bring one in and it sounded pretty good for the price through my deluxe so I ordered it on Amazon with free shipping. It's not going anywhere near my gigging rig though.

 
lol. I can't even get it to be delivered in a timely fashion through Amazon Prime. First ever amazon fuckup for us and we've been using Prime since it came out.

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One year in, and my Joyo Chorus and Joyo Quattro Delay show no signs of impending Doom. Still working exactly as they did new. My size 14 Clodhoppers haven't phased them a bit. I have no qualms about gigging them. That Quattro Delay might be the best bargain priced pedal ever. The modulated delay alone is worth way more than what the thing cost. The other 3 delays are also very good.

When we get back to gigging regularly, I might buy a back up just in case, but for the price... Two of them still cost less than a Boss DD-Whatever.
 
Mark Wein said:
I’m still finding humor in the fact that this week I’ve bought both a Joyo distortion AND a King of Tone for 10x the price.
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I think in 10-15 years we're going to look back on this decade of cheaply priced Chinese made gear with much the same sentiment we do now with the horde of Japanese stuff from the 80s. By then, the REALLY cheap stuff will all be made in Indonesia etc. Everyone forgets that $800 iPhone in their pocket was made in China...

A friend of mine that works for "Company X" was telling me the other day about the shocking amount of major, high end brands that are having most or all of their wares made in China these days. Mackie is a good example. When the old line up was still together we had 6 Mackie 450 Powered Cabs. 2 of them were the early (heavy) MIA version and the other 4 were the newer Chinese made type. Aside from the noticable weight difference, you'd be hard pressed to distinguish one from the other.

There will come a day when we'll wish more stuff was still made in China...
 
OGG said:
I think in 10-15 years we're going to look back on this decade of cheaply priced Chinese made gear with much the same sentiment we do now with the horde of Japanese stuff from the 80s. By then, the REALLY cheap stuff will all be made in Indonesia etc. Everyone forgets that $800 iPhone in their pocket was made in China...
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It continues to say a lot about the guitar COMMUNITY that it is generally accepted that SOME COMBINATION of ethnicity of workers and/or longitude of factories is a useful proxy for production quality.

(It is also SOMEWHAT true, via the detours of matching component quality and quality control to wages. But it is increasingly obvious to anyone sane that well regulated factories can be situated pretty much anywhere, if someone cares to do the regulating.)

NB: I'm not attributing foolishness to anyone here, least of all OGG since we all know how that ends.
 
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OGG said:
I think in 10-15 years we're going to look back on this decade of cheaply priced Chinese made gear with much the same sentiment we do now with the horde of Japanese stuff from the 80s. By then, the REALLY cheap stuff will all be made in Indonesia etc. Everyone forgets that $800 iPhone in their pocket was made in China...

A friend of mine that works for "Company X" was telling me the other day about the shocking amount of major, high end brands that are having most or all of their wares made in China these days. Mackie is a good example. When the old line up was still together we had 6 Mackie 450 Powered Cabs. 2 of them were the early (heavy) MIA version and the other 4 were the newer Chinese made type. Aside from the noticable weight difference, you'd be hard pressed to distinguish one from the other.

There will come a day when we'll wish more stuff was still made in China...
Click to expand...
Actually, the MKI SRM450’s were made in Italy. Or at least their electronic components were. We have one set of those and three sets of the MKII MIC versions and they are all great speakers. The Italian ones sound a small amount better but not enough that I’m going to get rid of the MIC pair that I own. The MKIII version is supposed to be even better.

I own stuff from all over. If it works I’m in. I do have an issue with companies ripping off other builders designs but everything is a clone with pedals anymore.
 
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vonbladet said:
It continues to say a lot about the guitar COMMUNITY that it is generally accepted that SOME COMBINATION of ethnicity of workers and/or longitude of factories is a useful proxy for production quality.

(It is also SOMEWHAT true, via the detours of matching component quality and quality control to wages. But it is increasingly obvious to anyone sane that well regulated factories can be situated pretty much anywhere, if someone cares to do the regulating.)

NB: I'm not attributing foolishness to anyone here, least of all OGG since we all know how that ends.
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I'm ok with being called foolish when it's true. I'm foolish fairly often...
Mark Wein said:
Actually, the MKI SRM450’s were made in Italy. Or at least their electronic components were. We have one set of those and three sets of the MKII MIC versions and they are all great speakers. The Italian ones sound a small amount better but not enough that I’m going to get rid of the MIC pair that I own. The MKIII version is supposed to be even better.

I own stuff from all over. If it works I’m in. I do have an issue with companies ripping off other builders designs but everything is a clone with pedals anymore.
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Yes, Italy. I had MIA on the brain. Like on autopilot.

As @vonbladet noted, country of origin is less significant than individual corporate oversight of their overseas factories and QC. Right now, the economics are perfect for outsourcing to China in order to save a bunch of money and still produce a quality product built to strict standards. As China's economy continues to grow, and as they continue to bite off a bigger chunk of the industrial pie, that gap in cost will shrink until many companies start looking elsewhere for a place they can outsource to and maintain that profit margin.

It's pretty ironic that most of the lauded Japanese electronics manufacturers of old (Sony etc) are having their own products manufactured in China now.
 
OGG said:
I think in 10-15 years we're going to look back on this decade of cheaply priced Chinese made gear with much the same sentiment we do now with the horde of Japanese stuff from the 80s. By then, the REALLY cheap stuff will all be made in Indonesia etc. Everyone forgets that $800 iPhone in their pocket was made in China...

A friend of mine that works for "Company X" was telling me the other day about the shocking amount of major, high end brands that are having most or all of their wares made in China these days. Mackie is a good example. When the old line up was still together we had 6 Mackie 450 Powered Cabs. 2 of them were the early (heavy) MIA version and the other 4 were the newer Chinese made type. Aside from the noticable weight difference, you'd be hard pressed to distinguish one from the other.

There will come a day when we'll wish more stuff was still made in China...
Click to expand...
I suspect a lot of the Joyo, Biyang, Donner, etc, pedals are made in the same factories as the more well known name brands. I remember watching a video a while back of that German guy (Etsych or something like that) touring the Joyo assembly line. There were tubs of JHS enclosures on the technicians table right next to the Joyo labelled ones. It is probably the exact same board going in a different box. I have no evidence to prove this, just a hunch given how businesses tend to operate. :shrug:
 
shoeless said:
I suspect a lot of the Joyo, Biyang, Donner, etc, pedals are made in the same factories as the more well known name brands. I remember watching a video a while back of that German guy (Etsych or something like that) touring the Joyo assembly line. There were tubs of JHS enclosures on the technicians table right next to the Joyo labelled ones. It is probably the exact same board going in a different box. I have no evidence to prove this, just a hunch given how businesses tend to operate. :shrug:
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I owned 2 Joyo pedals that died and I opened them up to try see if I wanted to fix them. They are no way built in the same factory that builds JHS pedals, they looked terrible inside. Besides, Josh build all of his in pedals in the US.

I don't doubt that Joyo, Biyang and Donner are all built in the same place.
 
Chad said:
I owned 2 Joyo pedals that died and I opened them up to try see if I wanted to fix them. They are no way built in the same factory that builds JHS pedals, they looked terrible inside. Besides, Josh build all of his in pedals in the US.

I don't doubt that Joyo, Biyang and Donner are all built in the same place.
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You are correct. I was mistaken about JHS, and that's what I get for posting from memory. I found the video of that guy's tour of the Joyo shop. It was Dr. J pedals that were on the table, not JHS. I got the "J" part right anyway. :grin:

Video is here, and the clip I was thinking of is at 11:30.



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I'm conflicted on the Chinese pedals. They make sense for a guy like me...who doesn't gig regularly and wants to experiment with tone options on a budget. I cannot justify tying up several hundreds of dollars in pedals for as often as I play. I own a couple of Chinese pedals (Joyo, Biyang, Donner) and have never had a problem with any of them. Again, I don't put them through much either.

OTOH, the Chinese really are just stealing other's designs, possibly with slight modifications, building and distributing them very cheaply. One could argue that is all any pedal company does. :shrug:

On the other, other hand, I will don't understand why there are overdrive pedals (that are just a handful of components in a box) that cost close to $200 either.
 
shoeless said:
I'm conflicted on the Chinese pedals. They make sense for a guy like me...who doesn't gig regularly and wants to experiment with tone options on a budget. I cannot justify tying up several hundreds of dollars in pedals for as often as I play. I own a couple of Chinese pedals (Joyo, Biyang, Donner) and have never had a problem with any of them. Again, I don't put them through much either.

OTOH, the Chinese really are just stealing other's designs, possibly with slight modifications, building and distributing them very cheaply. One could argue that is all any pedal company does. :shrug:

On the other, other hand, I will don't understand why there are overdrive pedals (that are just a handful of components in a box) that cost close to $200 either.
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I know it is a touchy subject, but I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for. I am fine buying a Chinese clone for next to nothing (a little clarification, I won't buy a counterfeit one like those fake Gibsons that say Gibson on the headstock). I am also fine when it shits the bed in a few weeks. I bought a Joyo Chorus and Delay a few years ago. I rarely used them and they both died in under a year. They also did not sound as good as the pedals they were trying to copy and they had more noise and volume issues when turned on. I don't gig either, but one of the reasons I buy from folks like EQD or Catalinbread is that I know they will be well built and if I have any issues with them, they will fix it. Based on my experience with Joyo, I paid $35 for a pedal that I tossed in the garbage in maybe 6 months. I buy an EQD or Catalinbread and I may pay $175, but I will never have to toss it in the garbage. Also I know that with something from EQD or Catalinbread I can sell it for almost what I paid for it.
 
There are ends of the spectrum I won't touch anymore. The whole Joyo/Mooer thing doesn't excite me, though I can definitely see they're getting better. Those NuX pedals I bought really surprised me, though I'm also 100% convinced I'll destroy them, which is why I'm selling them. OTOH, I'm not spending $300 for a guy to build stuff in his garage. Or more to the point, I'm happy to give that guy money if he's actually building something unique and if I can buy it through an actual retailer. I've seen too many people get burned. So I stick in the middle. Yeah, I might pay more for an Ibanez, BOSS, or DOD pedal built in China. But at least I know their reputation. Joyo and their brethren have a bit longer to go.

As for the cloning argument, think of it this way. The Joyo Ultimate Drive is a copy of a Fulltone OCD, which is a tweaked Voodoo labs Overdrive. That pretty much runs the gamut of price points in the pedal world. So buy the one that sounds best to you.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
There are ends of the spectrum I won't touch anymore. The whole Joyo/Mooer thing doesn't excite me, though I can definitely see they're getting better. Those NuX pedals I bought really surprised me, though I'm also 100% convinced I'll destroy them, which is why I'm selling them. OTOH, I'm not spending $300 for a guy to build stuff in his garage. Or more to the point, I'm happy to give that guy money if he's actually building something unique and if I can buy it through an actual retailer. I've seen too many people get burned. So I stick in the middle. Yeah, I might pay more for an Ibanez, BOSS, or DOD pedal built in China. But at least I know their reputation. Joyo and their brethren have a bit longer to go.

As for the cloning argument, think of it this way. The Joyo Ultimate Drive is a copy of a Fulltone OCD, which is a tweaked Voodoo labs Overdrive. That pretty much runs the gamut of price points in the pedal world. So buy the one that sounds best to you.
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I think I am in the same mindset as you. I know that sounds crazy and all :grin:
 
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