How many kids did you want? How many do you have?

Wanted zero. Have zero. I never even wanted to get married, but when I met Ashlee and right away she said she didn't want to have kids I knew she was the one.

OTOH, we plan on always having a dog. Ideally two at a time and MAYBE another cat...


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Wasn't really looking to have any or not have any when I was young(er). I wasn't in any relationship where it seemed feasible. Met my wife when I was about 20 and while knowing she was the one, we were using baby avoidance stuff (condoms and the pill). Once we got married (about five years later) she was still on the pill, for medical reasons. After she got off, we never really thought it. We had sex, w/o protection/prevention measures and figured we'd let whatever happens happen.

So at least three pregnancies with two kids to show for it. Two awesome boys that I'm only starting to get okay at dealing with (one is 13 and the other is seven). We're married 20 years tomorrow...so we're not expecting any additions. But one never knows, do one?
 
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We're only just married and haven't really discussed it seriously.

Until my twin bro announced he was having a kid last year it had never been a passing thought, even with my sister having a kid who is 5 now, but my brother and I are so alikeandI see the joy it brings them, I'm sure Jill and I will walk that road in a year or two.

If we don't I don't think it will bother me that much.
 
Johnny N. said:
Tim went by and we never had another.
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Was he on that red bike? Tim does that to all kinds of people. I tell him all of the time not to go by and give people that strange look while riding that bike with the scuba flippers on. It's just unsettling. Anyway, that's Tim... and he just won't listen to anybody.
 
When I got married in 1989, at 23, I was "meh" about kids. We had our first in 91, second in 92 and third in 96. All were large: 11.5, 10.5 and 10 lbs, and due to my wife having a small pelvic opening, all were c sections. After the third the doc recommended my wife get her tubes tied. She did.

It was tough for a few years as I was working retail and my wife was working medical office jobs. In 97 it turned around after I was fired from my retail job and decided to do what I wanted. What I wanted was to work full-time in fire/ems so I did. Due to the schedule I was able to spend a lot of time with my kids ( I only worked 10 24 hour shifts a month with some OT), and I really got to know them. I am sorry to say that until I went into fire/ems and spent that time with them I really was just a father. After the change in jobs I became a Father.

Now I would not trade the time I spend/spent with them for anything. They are now 26, 24 and 21. My son is in AZ, older daughter at home and youngest going to college in South Carolina.

In May my wife decided I was not a good husband and filed for divorce. She has decided that me and the kids are impediments to her happiness and has checked out. If it were not for my daughters, and our relationship, I would be a mess. They have been a solid foundation for me now and I appreciate them even more. For the son, he is out of state but has been taking the time to call both of us to keep in touch. His reaction to the news made me proud of him as an adult.

I went from one who could take or leave kids to one who cannot fathom not having kids.
 
That is a great story aside from the divorce.

Congratulations on the fire/ems career as well. Challenging, noble and I assume fulfilling.
 
smorgdonkey said:
That is akin to stating that you know how someone else thinks and/or feels when you don't know the person in question.
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No it isn't. Comparing kids to pets is a false equivalency. No matter how much you may care about your animal, it simply isn't the same as the bond between a parent and child. I used to feel similarly, until I became a parent. I don't expect you to understand, since you only have experience from one side of the equation. Any parent that believes that their kids and pets are the same deserves to have their kids taken away by CPS.
 
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Well - I had a fairly messed up childhood and as a result did not want any kids. But after I got married I figured we should probably have one or two. We had the first one about 5 years later and then an 'oops' kid 15 months after that. Then for whatever insane reason decided on a third. So three boys and we were deciding if we have a 4th (leaning heavily towards no) when somehow my wife managed to get preggers again. This one was a daughter, and despite that being a whole lot of kiddos I do not regret any of them. They are all awesome. But that was it. My wife got snipped in the hospital the day after #4 was delivered.

Fast forward almost twenty years and it ends up that without kids (only one was left at home) our marriage just didn't work. Really, it never did on the level a good marriage should, so we divorced (way more complicated than that...but...). I was getting back into the dating scene (well - one lady) and knew that I wanted no more kids in the future (I'm in my 50s....), so I got snipped. When things got serious with Amy we had to have a heart to heart. She had one kid (daughter who is now 8) from her first marriage and wanted at least one more. She knew I had gotten snipped and asked if I would consider a reversal. I said - no...no I will not. Aside from not wanting another kid it would not be fair to the kid to father a child in my late 50s. I look and act younger than that, but still. I'd in my mid-70s when the child graduates from HS. No way. So that was the deal - you marry me and no more kids. Aside from the four adult step-kids (I already had). And obviously she agreed.

So - I wanted none. Zero.
I have 5.....
 
335clone said:
No it isn't. Comparing kids to pets is a false equivalency. No matter how much you may care about your animal, it simply isn't the same as the bond between a parent and child. I used to feel similarly, until I became a parent. I don't expect you to understand, since you only have experience from one side of the equation. Any parent that believes that their kids and pets are the same deserves to have their kids taken away by CPS.
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I still disagree with you.

And even if one wanted to side with your take on it, one who doesn't have children may have their feelings and level of bond maximized. Perhaps people move their pets down a notch to make room for their kids when they have them but for those who never have kids, some of them have their pets at the top of that scale.

The top is the top and you prove in your reply that my post was correct in that you think you know how others feel and you think that you know how others feel. You don't know me and I can guarantee that when I had pets, they were at the absolute top of my responsibility/priority/bond 'scale'.
 
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smorgdonkey said:
I still disagree with you.

And even if one wanted to side with your take on it, one who doesn't have children may have their feelings and level of bond maximized. Perhaps people move their pets down a notch to make room for their kids when they have them but for those who never have kids, some of them have their pets at the top of that scale.

The top is the top.
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I respect your right to be wrong on this. I do not doubt that you loved your animals, and I am not trying to pick a fight with you.
 
335clone said:
Believe what you will.
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Isn't this what everyone does?

You believe that people who think differently than you do are wrong.

I think that is delusional.

Or do you just want to argue?

Personally, I think your mind is messed up from having kids. You couldn't possibly understand unless you had enough commitment to never have kids.

See how that works?
 
smorgdonkey said:
You don't know me and I can guarantee that when I had pets, they were at the absolute top of my responsibility/priority/bond 'scale'.
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Big difference. You were a pet owner/lover.

Parenthood is forever. Animal ownership is a fleeting thing, unless you own a whale or an elephant. You know from day 1 that you will bury that animal that you love, and that is an accepted fact.
 
My ex committed suicide. After I got sorted, I was too old to have kids. (this is not the point here, so moving on ...)

I accidentally became a 'cat parent' for the first time in 1999, and have had a total of 8 cats over the years. I love them all - and with one of them I have a bond that is, to me, the same (if not even more intense) than those described by parents (example: I'd risk my life to preserve the life of this cat). She sleeps curled against my chest, obeys all kinds of voice commands from me, and in fact picked me out at an adoption clinic by escaping from her cage and chasing me down.

The few times she's been injured, I have truly wondered what I would do without her. Odd as it may sound, that cat is my soulmate (a fact my wife still occasionally resents and took some time to get used to).

The point is that everyone has different types of relationships with animals, and some are more intense than others.
 
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