HOLY CRAP, PRINCE DIED!!!!!

Rick 381 said:
Really, Hendrix and Sly were the first given a pass into white music? Spoken like someone who grew up in the 70's.

Ever hear of Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino, James Brown, The Four Tops, The Temptations, The Supremes, I could do this all day. People who integrated the airwaves, and our lives, long before Hendrix and Sly were given a "pass".
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You assume and presume too much. I'm talking about how rock n roll was gentrified, but I didn't think I needed to explain every step of how black music became white music, particularly rock music. Throughout the late fifties up until the mid-late sixties, until Hendrix and Sly, most of the big and promoted "rock" stars and bands were white. The labels started white washing the music and giving the tunes to artists they could sell to and across white America.

Seems a touchy subject. I only brought race in the direct context (and answering part) of why Prince wasn't more widely regarded as a guitarist and at the time of his ascent, and the last big hurrah of segregated music, color was an issue with regards to rock music. I go a step further and say it was an issue with the press cover rock n roll and guitar. Guitar Player was generally more open to not caring about an artists race or musical genre and all of guitar mags loved to cash in on a Hendrix cover, but a horribly small percentage of black guitarists graced the pages of the guitar mags and far fewer still the covers.

I'm not talking about our opinions regarding black music and the segregation thereof, it's history...fact. I grew up in a house where it was all music, except country as my dad wasn't a fan (and even them Willie got a pass...dad liked pot). I don't give a shit about his race, but race was a factor enough for the Black Rock Coalition to exist. Within the context of the 1980's (as well as prior) and rock music, black artists were not particularly welcomed or deemed sell-able by the music industry. Those black musicians that played it had a hard time getting heard and seen. Living Colour's first single was Middle Man and the first time I heard or saw it was on BET. MTV didn't touch them for months after the album was released and getting praised by the music press, particularly those magazines based out of New York, where Living Colour were hot on the scene and catching the attention local musicians, fans, and said press. Mic Jagger played a huge role in getting the band more exposure.
 
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All white people should be drowned in a vat of mayonnaise while being forced to listen to John Tesh.
 
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I wasn't going to get into why I didn't get into Prince but it may be why others didn't also.
Prince struck me as Michael Jackson with a guitar. There may have been substance there but it was buried in flash and weird. Speaking of weird there was the whole symbol thing, that was weird and turned a lot of people off. I realize the industry rips people off, but nobody held a gun to his head and forced him too sign it. When he had nothing he was more than willing to take it. Once he became big he wanted more. As a grown up I understand you honor your commitments. If you don't like the deal don't sign it and if you do live with it until it expires then get a new one that benefits you, this goes for you too sports stars. There is nothing that turns me off more that some spoiled artist sitting in a mansion with his entourage whinning about how he's being ripped off.
The public persona off Prince was not someone I liked. When I saw Purple Rain I liked Morris Day more than I liked the kid. (And I liked Appolonia's tits better than Morris Day)
 
Rock_Against_Racism.jpg

1976
 
I don't know the particulars, or what happened down the line, but I think Prince had pretty good management and recording/publishing contracts from the get go. Especially for a neophyte.
 
Rick 381 said:
Prince struck me as Michael Jackson with a guitar.
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While Jackson was arguably a better singer and dancer, Prince has him easily beat in pretty much any other category.

Prince was probably one of the greatest all round musicians the world has ever known. The guy could do it all, really well, somethings brilliantly, and with a level of creativity and authority that is just mind blowing.

He might not have been a virtuoso in any one pursuit, but as a total package - definitely.
 
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sonik said:
I don't know the particulars, or what happened down the line, but I think Prince had pretty good management and recording/publishing contracts from the get go.
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He did, but what he couldn’t get out of Warner was ownership of the master recordings. Part of this was just him being crazy and seeing a conspiracy in the terms “master” and “slave” that Warner used to describe the recordings in their contracts. It didn’t become about money until later, when he realized that he could make significantly more money selling fewer albums without Warner.
 
rhino said:
I agree that racism is still a very much a part of our culture. The fact that Prince's race needs to be brought up at all in his RIP thread is evidence as such.
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I don't agree with that. I think that acknowledgent of black culture is a positive thing. You can't erase history. Or present-day racism.

Maybe I'm younger than the typical demographic that hangs out here and being the product of different times changes the way I see things, but I did/do not think of Prince as a black guy that plays guitar. He was a pop star that wrote really good songs and alot of them. He commanded any stage he stepped on and could do it with or without an instrument. He was an artist that never wanted to be put in a box, which in a way, can become its own box.
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All true.
 
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Rick 381 said:
I wasn't going to get into why I didn't get into Prince but it may be why others didn't also.
Prince struck me as Michael Jackson with a guitar. There may have been substance there but it was buried in flash and weird.
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If you only were familiar with the hits, I could see you getting that impression. Prince was a composer. He came up with the high falsetto voice when he was writing parts that would be traditionally be sung by females. He's recorded songs that were "duets" with his voice playing back and forth as the two characters. Since he often recorded ALL of the vocals, keyboards, drums, bass, sax, guitars etc etc etc he would build up these characters and situations like a modern day opera. Between the music, the visuals, the marketing, the movies, and the controversy, everything seemed to be part of his plans. It's also evident in how prolific he was at helping create entirely different acts like The Time, Vanity 6, Sheila E, 3rdEyeGirl and others.

Rick 381 said:
Speaking of weird there was the whole symbol thing, that was weird and turned a lot of people off.
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Warner Brothers had a contract that controlled his birth name and his likeness. They were trying to exert control over his writing and production so he told them to fuck off. He wore a veil over his face and changed his name to an unpronouncible symbol as a giant middle finger to them.

To fulfill his contract, he simply turned over songs from his archive that had been recorded years prior. During that era there were albums coming out from Warner Brothers labeled "Prince" and then symbol records that were new recordings. Once his contract was over, he reclaimed his name. Pretty genius actually.
 
Rick 381 said:
I wasn't going to get into why I didn't get into Prince but it may be why others didn't also.
Prince struck me as Michael Jackson with a guitar. There may have been substance there but it was buried in flash and weird. Speaking of weird there was the whole symbol thing, that was weird and turned a lot of people off. I realize the industry rips people off, but nobody held a gun to his head and forced him too sign it. When he had nothing he was more than willing to take it. Once he became big he wanted more. As a grown up I understand you honor your commitments. If you don't like the deal don't sign it and if you do live with it until it expires then get a new one that benefits you, this goes for you too sports stars. There is nothing that turns me off more that some spoiled artist sitting in a mansion with his entourage whinning about how he's being ripped off.
The public persona off Prince was not someone I liked. When I saw Purple Rain I liked Morris Day more than I liked the kid. (And I liked Appolonia's tits better than Morris Day)
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Your opinion is incorrect.
 
micwalt said:
I'll give you dancer, but that's it.
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I'd argue that as well, given that following Thriller, he just used the same moves over and over. So he was great at that set of dance licks we associate with Jackson. Prince was more concerned with playing music than dancing...until the entertainment media created the rivalry. Then Prince felt the need to dance more.
 
Flamencology said:
I don't agree with that. I think that acknowledgement of black culture is a positive thing. You can't erase history.
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I don't want to erase history. It is imperative that we remember history so we don't make the same mistakes. While I think acknowledgement of black culture can be a positive thing, I think it also has the potential to be negative when it becomes exclusionary of other people based on their race.

Prince is a pretty fascinating case study for this kind of discussion. There has been a lot written about him since his death. Some of it really runs with some of the things he said and plays up the fact that he was proud black man. I don't want to argue whether he was or wasn't, though, I tend to think he probably was. As an artist, I only think he should be judged on his creative output, and I think that was for everybody. Ultimately, he wanted to get the whole world dancing and grab as much cash as he could while he could.

Earlier, I was trying to find a quote from Prince referencing the constant comparison to Hendrix earlier in his career. I couldn't find the one I was remembering but did come across the one where he said he preferred Santana because he played prettier and said Joni Mitchel and Stevie Nicks were bigger influences.

To go back to the question that got this whole ball rolling, I think the above factors in to why he isn't regarded as a guitar hero as well. In his effort to distance himself from the Hendrix comparison he got early in his career, I think he intentionally distanced himself from the guitar hero thing. In The Band of Gypsies documentary Lenny Kravits talked about the same thing. Paraphrasing poorly here, but the idea was it's impossible to be a black guy, play guitar, and not get compared to Hendrix. He mentioned Prince in the quote and said it doesn't matter what other kind of stuff they're getting into, that comparison would always come up.

With that in mind, I think Prince isn't thought of as a guitar hero because he didn't want to be. He knew if he was, he would always be compared to Jimi Hendrix and he didn't want that. While I do agree that is a racially motivated comparison and that's probably the reason he wanted to avoid it, I don't think that type of racism would hurt his career. If anything it would've helped because it gave main stream media a box to put this guy in who didn't really want to be put in a box. He fights back against being put in a box, goes a different direction, keeps striving to not be put in a box, gets labeled a weirdo.... we're still talking about him today.

He played his cards as well as he probably could have. Maybe the only thing he didn't do right was not leaving a will to divvy up his estate.
 
I always thought the Hendrix comparison to be ridiculous...for both Prince and Lenny Kravitz. Just because you're black and play electric guitar, you're like Hendrix? I don't think so. Neither of them sound anything like Jimi. If I had to pick one guy who's style kinda reminds me of Jimi, it'd be Trower....the pasty white Brit, lol.
 
shoeless said:
I always thought the Hendrix comparison to be ridiculous...for both Prince and Lenny Kravitz. Just because you're black and play electric guitar, you're like Hendrix? I don't think so. Neither of them sound anything like Jimi. If I had to pick one guy who's style kinda reminds me of Jimi, it'd be Trower....the pasty white Brit, lol.
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Preach.

I think Prince had a right to be pissed. He was like a James Brown and David Bowie love child always pushing the limits of what could be done.

Kravitz should embrace the comparison. He's a pretty good player and I've heard he's a super nice guy, but he also isn't exactly doing anything fresh musically.
 
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