GM: That Car You Bought? We’re Really The Ones Who Own It.

So no one can tinker and find improvements or performance enhancements.......not to mention safety issues.
 
That just shows how poor their design is if the entire "ecosystem" is so easily disrupted.
 
Didn't another industry try this same thing years ago? "It's really not yours even though you bought it…it's still ours" type-thing, and the courts shot them down?
 
Jbird said:
Didn't another industry try this same thing years ago? "It's really not yours even though you bought it…it's still ours" type-thing, and the courts shot them down?
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In the ATM industry, several years ago there was a lawsuit by at least (IIRC) two third-party service companies against the company I had worked for involving the diagnostic software. While third party techs could access the base diagnostics, they needed a password to get into the advanced diagnostics, and our company wasn't giving it up because the "advanced diagnostic portion was copyrighted and proprietary". It was only allowed to be accessed by techs from our company - even if the ATM was fully paid for, and the existing service contract with our company had expired and not been renewed. My company lost in court, and subsequently removed the password protection.
 
CBHScott said:
And I agree with many of the commenters: while it rightly shouldn't be a violation of any copyright laws for a car owner to tinker with the software, it SHOULD invalidate the warranty if the car owner fucks it up and needs the dealer to handle it.
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I don't have any figures to back it up, but here in the UK I'd imagine it's mainly boy racers who modify cars and generally they'll be buying them second hand and of an age out of warranty anyway. There will always be a few people with more money than sense who'll buy a new car and get it chipped but that's a definite minority and I would expect that would negate any warranty in that case.

Over in the US, I believe there's a far bigger culture of modding/customising cars so it might be more of an issue. But yeah, if you f*ck with something that the OEM explicitly states you should not do if you want to maintain your warranty, then it's your lookout and expect to pay full whack to get it fixed when you've fubar'ed it.
 
Gorgon90 said:
Over in the US, I believe there's a far bigger culture of modding/customising cars so it might be more of an issue. But yeah, if you f*ck with something that the OEM explicitly states you should not do if you want to maintain your warranty, then it's your lookout and expect to pay full whack to get it fixed when you've fubar'ed it.
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In good ole US of A, we have the Magnuson-Moss act which essentially forbids manufactures from denying warranty coverage because of aftermarket modifications unless that modification materially contributed to the cause of the claim.
 
Fuck GM. This is just another shitty way to drive consumers to car dealers for overpriced service.
 
Lerxst said:
In good ole US of A, we have the Magnuson-Moss act which essentially forbids manufactures from denying warranty coverage because of aftermarket modifications unless that modification materially contributed to the cause of the claim.
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I guess there's plain and simple stuff, like yeah, modifying the car's engine management system clearly did not cause the door handle to snap but there's a lot that would be hard to prove one way or the other, like did the gear box break because you're putting an extra 100 bhp through it? Is that down to the customer to prove it would have gone anyway or the manufacturer to prove that it would have been fine?
 
Gorgon90 said:
I guess there's plain and simple stuff, like yeah, modifying the car's engine management system clearly did not cause the door handle to snap but there's a lot that would be hard to prove one way or the other, like did the gear box break because you're putting an extra 100 bhp through it? Is that down to the customer to prove it would have gone anyway or the manufacturer to prove that it would have been fine?
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It really depends on the situation and the parties involved. There's no cut and paste but anytime that a mfg or their representative deny your warranty claim, for whatever reason you disagree with, you have to either negotiate a resolution or pursue it legally. If it's because of a modification and you take it to the court, you have establish your mod didn't cause the issue and alternatively they would have prove the opposite. Talking about software, they would have to identify the engine management software's presence in the first place, which isn't always easy not to mention it could be a piggyback system, that isn't even present when they receive the car for service. Another thing to consider is that many of these street oriented ecu upgrades are pretty mild & aren't adding hundreds of horsepower. Sure you might abuse the clutch a bit but that's usually treated like tires; wear item typically not covered in warranty. People generally recognize that when the modify their car well outside of the mfg's spec, they do so at their own risk.
 
GM the Gibson of cars. If they own it when it's ready to go to the junkyard take to Detroit and return it. I'm thinking maybe leave it in the Executive parking lot.
 
Gorgon90 said:
Over in the US, I believe there's a far bigger culture of modding/customising cars so it might be more of an issue.
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It is. As a new car owner, I joined a forum for that model. I'm amazed at the number of owners installing aftermarket tunes (software) in brand-new cars, right off the dealer lots. Some even have aftermarket stuff on order before the car even arrives, but if anything goes wrong or breaks, they're sweating to reinstall the factory tune and replace any aftermarket parts back to OEM if there's even a slim chance the dealer can point to that new part as a reason for the failure.
 
Steverino said:
It is. As a new car owner, I joined a forum for that model. I'm amazed at the number of owners installing aftermarket tunes (software) in brand-new cars, right off the dealer lots. Some even have aftermarket stuff on order before the car even arrives, but if anything goes wrong or breaks, they're sweating to reinstall the factory tune and replace any aftermarket parts back to OEM if there's even a slim chance the dealer can point to that new part as a reason for the failure.
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So you joined the HCEG of car forums?
 
Steverino said:
It is. As a new car owner, I joined a forum for that model. I'm amazed at the number of owners installing aftermarket tunes (software) in brand-new cars, right off the dealer lots. Some even have aftermarket stuff on order before the car even arrives, but if anything goes wrong or breaks, they're sweating to reinstall the factory tune and replace any aftermarket parts back to OEM if there's even a slim chance the dealer can point to that new part as a reason for the failure.
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Some dealers offer aftermarket parts and ecu upgrades as dealer installed options at purchase or post purchase.
VW started offering the 'performance pack' option on the GTI the other year, which includes...wait for it...a factory tune. Tunes/ecu upgrades can significantly enhance the throttle response and way the car drives for the better. Heck, I even got better gas mileage than stock when I wasn't dipping into the throttle on my APR tuned VWs.

But yeah, if you come in decked out in aftermarket parts and have a warranty issue I'm sure many dealers are just itching to say 'denied!'
 
Lerxst said:
Some dealers offer aftermarket parts and ecu upgrades as dealer installed options at purchase or post purchase.
VW started offering the 'performance pack' option on the GTI the other year, which includes...wait for it...a factory tune. Tunes/ecu upgrades can significantly enhance the throttle response and way the car drives for the better. Heck, I even got better gas mileage than stock when I wasn't dipping into the throttle on my APR tuned VWs.

But yeah, if you come in decked out in aftermarket parts and have a warranty issue I'm sure many dealers are just itching to say 'denied!'
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Pretty sure Ford offers a factory performance tune for the ST. Just haven't looked into it yet, as I'm enjoying the stock setup. But if I were to "upgrade" I'd probably take the tune from Ford.
 
I thought there were already lawsuits about this and it was determined by the courts that the car is yours and the manufacturer can fuck off.
 
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