mongooz
.
probably the government, since i see it quite often.
F#@K pharmaceutical companies!!!
- Thread starter Dogsinplastic
- Start date
probably the government, since i see it quite often.
12Pack
Dyslexic b00n
Sorry for the long winded below - I just couldn't keep quiet anymore and two days ago had no desire to do this. I also am not checking for spelling so sorry for typos.
The below based on facts and I've noted my opinions based on facts.
Lets say after reading this thread you go to the Doctor and say, "Doc. After reading this I am depressed, what can you do for me?" The Doctor can prescribe Flouexetine 20mg (Generic Prozac) and the average US Pharmacy pays about .03 cents per capsule. A years worth a little over $300 in the US.
Yet Abilify, another antidepressant is about $25-$35 PER PILL depending on the dosage amount.
So if you have an insurance plan that you only have to pay 20% for example, you'll be paying $200 a MONTH for Abilify as opposed to about $60 a YEAR for generic prozac. Abilify would cost you hundreds of dollars a month, even if you have insurance.
More examples - Temodar costs about $8500 for 15 pills
Gleevac - About $90,000 per year for chronic leukemia
Atripla about $25,000 a year (For HIV)
So, you are all asking why do Pharma's charge so much for their products? And every time you ask them they say, "Its the Research. It's the R&D as it's so expensive"
If you are willing to do the research you can easily look up the major pharmaceuticals public companies statements in the world.
Abbott, Amgen, Astrazenecca, Eli Lilly, Bristol-Meyers Squibb, Gilead, Glaxo Smith Kline, J&J, Merck, Schering Plough (Merck bought SP in 2009), Novartis Pfizer, Wyeth (Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009), Roche. the largest of the pharma's and they make up about 42% of all pharmaceutical sales in the world. Pull any one of the financials and what you don't here is the cost of their marketing budgets, which typical DOUBLE the R&D budgets that they say costs so much.
Here is Pfizer for 2015 - their marketing budget is at $14Billion - their R&D is at $7Billion. You can even see prior year approximately the same. $14 Billion in Pfizer drug commercials and selling to Doctors. SELLING TO DOCTORS not us individuals.
Look all the way at the bottom and that's about $7Billion in net revenues. Please also note the DECREASING revenue in Pfizer that last few years - this will come up later in the post as it is relevant.
Pfizer - $48.8 Billion Revenue
Marketing Spent $14.8 Billion
R&D Spent $7.6 Billion
Profit $6.9 Billion
Pfizer profited almost as much as their R&D after spending more than double their profit on marketing. All the major pharmaceuticals operate this way and they never complain about marketing dollars and all the commercials they have to buy.
Total revenues for all of the above major Pharma's going back about a decade - $4.44 Trillion dollars in revenue, $735 Billion on R&D, $1.3 Trillion on marketing and $853Billion in profits for all. All of the above have made more profits then they spent on research and almost twice as much in marketing over research.
Here it is in bar form:
And here is the slice of pharma pie that's pretty sizable:
Now - Here in the US we pay more, FAR MORE then anywhere else in the world for these medications. To give you a comparison, total US spend vs. Rest of World
42% of the entire world Prescription Spend is absolutely significant. This is from ALL pharma prescriptions and not just the ones mentioned above and to put this in even more perspective the US only has less than 5% of the worlds population. The US with 5% of people is responsible for 42% of world pharma revenue. PHARMA LOVES THE US BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO PAY IT!
Comparing the US to CANADA on paid prescriptions, this should give you an idea. This is what the Pharmacy pays and also it's US dollar vs. Canadian Dollar so it's even more of a difference.
Point is - no other country in the world allows the pharma to charge what they want. The US is the ONLY country in the world that has a government that allows pharma to charge what they want. We call this a FREE MARKET. But reality is, it's not FREE. There is no freedom in it. We don't choose the drugs to buy - the Doctor chooses. And we don't shop around and price compare as we use our insurance and pay the same price wherever we go. It's not really a free market. This is all for BRANDED medicine.
As of now, about 80% of all medicines are written with GENERIC medicines. Generic medicines are about 95% to 99% cheaper then BRANDED medicine in the US. In the US we pay about the same for Generic medicine as anywhere else in the rest of world. This is leading to an interesting trend. If we take a look at TOTAL WORLD SALES you will see that US pharma sales have actually been flatlining since about 2009. Again because of generics.
More of the common medications being prescribed every year are becoming generic medications, lowering price and cost for all. You can look into this and perhaps one of the reasons is that pharma has lost good ideas years ago. Speculate all you want - this is an opinion. Named medications, the money is running out.
This is what happens when a named brand drug loses it patent - from Bristol Meyers Squib - Doesn't take much to see the financial impact of the patent expiration.
BMS made $6.5 Billion in Sales for Plavix in 2011 - You can see why they guard their patents so much. Goes off patent and the revenue runs out fast. So many of the pharmas are being creative, or trying to be creative in their revenues. One of the things they can do is called Evergreening their patent. Evergreening is using legal technicalities to artificially extend the life of the patent (drug). For example, they can find new indications for the drug, perhaps new dosages or delivery mechanisms (Pill versus inhaler for example) and they can extend patents by years for doing things like this.
Also - what is not widely known in the industry is that as of 2013 the US Supreme court ruled that Pharma can PAY THE GENERICS COMPETITION TO DELAY!! If you see what BMS lost in Plavix, you can see that is substantial money for a few years.
And another thing Pharma can do, is raise prices. After all there is no US regulation that allows them not too. This has been happening for some time according to NADAC which is the National Average Drug Acquisition Cost of what the US Pharmacy pays (not what the user or insurance pays).
Here are a few - but the list can be long.
The cost of Branded medications have been going up significantly over the past few years to make up for the lack of new ideas, patents and maintaining profit.
If you were to look at revenue from Pfizer above and MOST (but not all) of the previously mentioned you would see over the last few years their total revenue have not been increasing - they have been declining or have been flat. I'd be more than happy to put up graphs for that if you so desire. Based on financials and what is provided here - the ERA of Big PHARMA is declining, again my opinion. Pharma is getting desperate and I fear more news like you've seen will be coming. They have been using old ideas with new gimmicks to increase revenues and they are running out. Despite what you recently see in the news, medications are actually as a whole decreasing because of generics. Problem is the past capabilities of new block bluster drugs are also coming to an end too. They replaced the old ideas with marketers and new gimmicks ever since the 90's.
The below based on facts and I've noted my opinions based on facts.
Lets say after reading this thread you go to the Doctor and say, "Doc. After reading this I am depressed, what can you do for me?" The Doctor can prescribe Flouexetine 20mg (Generic Prozac) and the average US Pharmacy pays about .03 cents per capsule. A years worth a little over $300 in the US.
Yet Abilify, another antidepressant is about $25-$35 PER PILL depending on the dosage amount.
So if you have an insurance plan that you only have to pay 20% for example, you'll be paying $200 a MONTH for Abilify as opposed to about $60 a YEAR for generic prozac. Abilify would cost you hundreds of dollars a month, even if you have insurance.
More examples - Temodar costs about $8500 for 15 pills
Gleevac - About $90,000 per year for chronic leukemia
Atripla about $25,000 a year (For HIV)
So, you are all asking why do Pharma's charge so much for their products? And every time you ask them they say, "Its the Research. It's the R&D as it's so expensive"
If you are willing to do the research you can easily look up the major pharmaceuticals public companies statements in the world.
Abbott, Amgen, Astrazenecca, Eli Lilly, Bristol-Meyers Squibb, Gilead, Glaxo Smith Kline, J&J, Merck, Schering Plough (Merck bought SP in 2009), Novartis Pfizer, Wyeth (Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009), Roche. the largest of the pharma's and they make up about 42% of all pharmaceutical sales in the world. Pull any one of the financials and what you don't here is the cost of their marketing budgets, which typical DOUBLE the R&D budgets that they say costs so much.
Here is Pfizer for 2015 - their marketing budget is at $14Billion - their R&D is at $7Billion. You can even see prior year approximately the same. $14 Billion in Pfizer drug commercials and selling to Doctors. SELLING TO DOCTORS not us individuals.
Look all the way at the bottom and that's about $7Billion in net revenues. Please also note the DECREASING revenue in Pfizer that last few years - this will come up later in the post as it is relevant.
Pfizer - $48.8 Billion Revenue
Marketing Spent $14.8 Billion
R&D Spent $7.6 Billion
Profit $6.9 Billion
Pfizer profited almost as much as their R&D after spending more than double their profit on marketing. All the major pharmaceuticals operate this way and they never complain about marketing dollars and all the commercials they have to buy.
Total revenues for all of the above major Pharma's going back about a decade - $4.44 Trillion dollars in revenue, $735 Billion on R&D, $1.3 Trillion on marketing and $853Billion in profits for all. All of the above have made more profits then they spent on research and almost twice as much in marketing over research.
Here it is in bar form:
And here is the slice of pharma pie that's pretty sizable:
Now - Here in the US we pay more, FAR MORE then anywhere else in the world for these medications. To give you a comparison, total US spend vs. Rest of World
42% of the entire world Prescription Spend is absolutely significant. This is from ALL pharma prescriptions and not just the ones mentioned above and to put this in even more perspective the US only has less than 5% of the worlds population. The US with 5% of people is responsible for 42% of world pharma revenue. PHARMA LOVES THE US BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO PAY IT!
Comparing the US to CANADA on paid prescriptions, this should give you an idea. This is what the Pharmacy pays and also it's US dollar vs. Canadian Dollar so it's even more of a difference.
Point is - no other country in the world allows the pharma to charge what they want. The US is the ONLY country in the world that has a government that allows pharma to charge what they want. We call this a FREE MARKET. But reality is, it's not FREE. There is no freedom in it. We don't choose the drugs to buy - the Doctor chooses. And we don't shop around and price compare as we use our insurance and pay the same price wherever we go. It's not really a free market. This is all for BRANDED medicine.
As of now, about 80% of all medicines are written with GENERIC medicines. Generic medicines are about 95% to 99% cheaper then BRANDED medicine in the US. In the US we pay about the same for Generic medicine as anywhere else in the rest of world. This is leading to an interesting trend. If we take a look at TOTAL WORLD SALES you will see that US pharma sales have actually been flatlining since about 2009. Again because of generics.
More of the common medications being prescribed every year are becoming generic medications, lowering price and cost for all. You can look into this and perhaps one of the reasons is that pharma has lost good ideas years ago. Speculate all you want - this is an opinion. Named medications, the money is running out.
This is what happens when a named brand drug loses it patent - from Bristol Meyers Squib - Doesn't take much to see the financial impact of the patent expiration.
BMS made $6.5 Billion in Sales for Plavix in 2011 - You can see why they guard their patents so much. Goes off patent and the revenue runs out fast. So many of the pharmas are being creative, or trying to be creative in their revenues. One of the things they can do is called Evergreening their patent. Evergreening is using legal technicalities to artificially extend the life of the patent (drug). For example, they can find new indications for the drug, perhaps new dosages or delivery mechanisms (Pill versus inhaler for example) and they can extend patents by years for doing things like this.
Also - what is not widely known in the industry is that as of 2013 the US Supreme court ruled that Pharma can PAY THE GENERICS COMPETITION TO DELAY!! If you see what BMS lost in Plavix, you can see that is substantial money for a few years.
And another thing Pharma can do, is raise prices. After all there is no US regulation that allows them not too. This has been happening for some time according to NADAC which is the National Average Drug Acquisition Cost of what the US Pharmacy pays (not what the user or insurance pays).
Here are a few - but the list can be long.
The cost of Branded medications have been going up significantly over the past few years to make up for the lack of new ideas, patents and maintaining profit.
If you were to look at revenue from Pfizer above and MOST (but not all) of the previously mentioned you would see over the last few years their total revenue have not been increasing - they have been declining or have been flat. I'd be more than happy to put up graphs for that if you so desire. Based on financials and what is provided here - the ERA of Big PHARMA is declining, again my opinion. Pharma is getting desperate and I fear more news like you've seen will be coming. They have been using old ideas with new gimmicks to increase revenues and they are running out. Despite what you recently see in the news, medications are actually as a whole decreasing because of generics. Problem is the past capabilities of new block bluster drugs are also coming to an end too. They replaced the old ideas with marketers and new gimmicks ever since the 90's.
Attachments
Chad
Slender Hobbit
Thanks for that. I had a feeling marketing was a huge expense by these companies. I wonder if they consider the drug reps that take lunch to offices and clinics marketing. I wonder if lobbying also falls under marketing or is that in the "other" category. I'm not really sure why they need to market their product. You would think doctors would stay up on the latest and greatest drug research and prescribe the correct medicine to you.
I will say I was a bit bummed when the university I worked at banned that. I loved the free lunches. And it wasn't just drug companies. We we were replacing our Radiology Information System, we were taken out to fancy dinners and super expensive restaurants to sway our decisions.
12Pack
Dyslexic b00n
Yup - that's marketing, then hidden in the "Cost of Sales" category as an expense.
Now the Pharmaceuticals have to report ALL EXPENSES (Above $25) to the US Government as part of the "Pharmaceutical Sunshine Act". So they report - but it doesn't stop them from doing it.
I worked with a pharma that I mentioned in my above post (I wont say which one) that had a loophole in their expense reporting system that allowed sales reps to put in "vendor unknown" as an expense category. Sales reps are lazy and they were defaulting to that. When that was uncovered and the millions of dollars they could not report as part of the new Sunshine Act - lets just say shit hit the fan. They had more expenses they couldn't account for then the actual US Government Fines would have been.
Chad
Slender Hobbit
You know, it would be one thing if it was the luxury car industry, but this is stuff people can't actually live without. I know some things like boner pills and necessary to live, but without 3 of the meds I take, I would be dead in a few years. Luckily all the ones I need have generics so it doesn't kill me. I really don't know how the guys at the top of these companies sleep at night. I guess in mansions on really expensive beds.
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
I picked up a 4 month supply from the pharmacy the other day, six pills a day. My bill was $0.
mongooz
.
well then it would seem that pharma should scale back on their tv ads. i know i'm tired of seeing a drug ad on tv every 8 minutes. it seems like 80% of the commercials on tv ARE drug adds. and if all that money spent on advertising isn't bringing in the profit, then stop doing it and save the money. then maybe they wouldn't need to charge $600 for a $25 epipen. 
Very cool information, 12Pack. I don't know crap about the marketing side of pharma, so it is good to hear about that aspect, as it is the overall financials, as, again, this is not anything I know squat about.
shoeless
Riffin'
Yep...and that's a fairly recent (like in the last 5-10 years) development. The only ads that I remember seeing on TV as a kid was for over-the-counter meds like aspirin. That might be a good first step...banning ads for prescription meds.well then it would seem that pharma should scale back on their tv ads. i know i'm tired of seeing a drug ad on tv every 8 minutes. it seems like 80% of the commercials on tv ARE drug adds. and if all that money spent on advertising isn't bringing in the profit, then stop doing it and save the money. then maybe they wouldn't need to charge $600 for a $25 epipen.
Bob411
thrumming with potential
well then it would seem that pharma should scale back on their tv ads. i know i'm tired of seeing a drug ad on tv every 8 minutes. it seems like 80% of the commercials on tv ARE drug adds. and if all that money spent on advertising isn't bringing in the profit, then stop doing it and save the money. then maybe they wouldn't need to charge $600 for a $25 epipen.
With the disclaimers they have, who would watch a commercial and say, Sign me up for diarrhea, vomiting, occasional fainting spells, ...
mongooz
.
yea....really.....i thought all this money spent on the trials and the testing was supposed to yield a safe drug to help some ailment......what the fuck.....'you could experience death'......WTF?
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
Preferable to anal leakage.