Agile Guitars - is it possible to discuss them?

[Virtual Pariah]

* Are they still primarily made in Korea? They used to say that on the website, but that info is conspicuously missing now.

Agile is still made at the Mirr factory in S. Korea. Last I heard (early 2016,) they are staying there because Mirr has the agility to handle smallish runs. Chapman guitars are made there also, and I believe the SK Eastwoods and Pure Salem stuff.

* Why WAS Agile such a lightning rod for flame wars? I really never got this.

Basically, because at the time they came out it was the start of the small batch mid-quality imports. Up until that time the non-MIA-MIJ stuff was considered pretty bad. Then you add in the QA issues that Gibson was going through and Agile happen to hit "right time/right product" and HC's word of mouth influence was at it's highest.

* Does anyone else feel that the design(s) are really much better than the 'originals?'
Not really. They have some good designs, some bad. But they were willing to experiment with colors that Gibson and their Subs wouldn't.


* Now that Agiles have been around a while, why haven't the forums lit up with tales about how they've aged? It's strange to me how all those flame-war veterans have just kind of gone away? I'm NOT seeking a revival of the flame wars, but it would be really interesting to hear from someone who has, say, owned an AL-2500 for 12 years to hear how they're getting on with their instruments.

I've had a couple for 7-8 years and they are holding up fine. Still Heavy guitars and my back isn't what it once was.
The wars ended because there are others in that market space now. Plus the entry level guitars have gotten better across the board. Rising QA and competition forced others to up their game.

* What do people think generally about the value structure of mail-order only? I have never seen an SX bass in the flesh, but if I did and it were comparable in quality to a Squier Vintage Modified, I can think of 2 or 3 I'd want to order right away. And I always get to wondering "is it really 60% of the Squier price just because they don't have a marketing machine?" As an analogy, the guys on Talkbass are all agog over Sire basses, who espouse the same approach.

The concept of mail order only never really bothered me. I can't get riled up about if the box from the container ship goes on a wall or comes directly to me, as long as the return policy is fair.
Plus, I've never gotten a good feel for a guitar with a 10min in store sit-down session. I need to work the instrument to fit me anyway.

As for the marketing? Yeah. You do pay for the brand at some level. Think of it as insurance against resale. A Squier will resell higher than a comparable Agile.

 

[linthat22]

I've had an al-3000m for awhile and........wood wise, it's pretty. Unplugged, it sounds like a muffled fart down a concrete drain. After a variety of pickups, I've found that the guitar really let's the sound of the pickups shine through and records pretty well. It's odd.

I would never buy another one without being able to play one first to reduce the chances of getting a semi-dud.

 

[xStonr]

I picked up a P90 AL2800 back when they (the R name) was being hit with a cease and desist order pertaining to their horn and headstock. I still have it and play it every so often still. Very heavy guitar.

 

[Jbird]

I had one that was a Les Paul copy. Mine was every bit as good as any Epiphone LP you'd find at GC. The stock ceramic pickups were horrible, but it sounded/sounds killer with a SD 59'/JB set in it.

My good friend Paul owns it now, he really likes it.

I'm pretty sure almost all, if not all, of them are made in China these days

 

[joeboy]

I have owned 2. The 3 P90 LP in goldtop with the proper selector switch. It was a great player but it was like playing with a concrete slab on a strap. It actually broke an Ernie Ball strap and slapped on the floor. Broke some of the gold off here and there. Gave it character. It was stolen. I also had a double cut P90 that I could never set it up correctly. It was sold. This was back when they were all the rage on HCEG.

 

[jp_nyc]

Sadly I can no longer deal with the weight of LP style guitars and Agile no longer makes SG copies. They have the Valkyrie, but it’s an ugly derivative of ESP’s also ugly viper.

 

[Beyer160]

* Are they still primarily made in Korea? They used to say that on the website, but that info is conspicuously missing now.

AFAIK, yes.

Why WAS Agile such a lightning rod for flame wars?

I really never got this.

This has been pretty well covered already, but when they first came out the bang/buck ratio of Agiles was off the charts. It was really the beginning of the realization that mass produced Asian guitars could be really good.

Does anyone else feel that the design(s) are really much better than the 'originals?'

As a lifelong "Fender guy," I look at the SX basses particularly, and just from a layout/color/etc. approach they're much more up my alley than the MIM FMIC options. Cool bursts, matching headstocks, block inlays, bindings - I feel like the spirit of the original animal(s) are somehow more honored there.

SX and Agile are two different beasts from two different factories. I had an SX jazz bass for a while that was roughly Squier VM level, but with (pretty decent sounding) ceramic pickups instead of alnico. I only sold it because I have way too many guitars and needed to downsize.

Now that Agiles have been around a while, why haven't the forums lit up with tales about how they've aged?

The market is more saturated with other competitors, and the idea that Korean guitars can be high quality is accepted now.

What do people think generally about the value structure of mail-order only?

I have never seen an SX bass in the flesh, but if I did and it were comparable in quality to a Squier Vintage Modified, I can think of 2 or 3 I'd want to order right away. And I always get to wondering "is it really 60% of the Squier price just because they don't have a marketing machine?" As an analogy, the guys on Talkbass are all agog over Sire basses, who espouse the same approach.

First, I won't buy another SX until they get rid of the fugly headstock. Second, I do agree that while the potential return hassle is a consideration, "Balsa wood and spit" has a reputation for a good return policy. And I definitely feel that you're getting more bang for the buck by cutting out the middle man.

I have an Agile Al3100 that scratches my Les Paul itch just fine. I'm not a huge Les Paul guy, but when the need arises my Agile is a good axe- I'd say it's as good as the best Epiphone I ever played, and better than most. At one point about a decade ago I briefly considered selling it and picking up a Gibson Faded LP, but that's when I discovered how shitty the lower end Gibsons were.

 

[Honkridge]

I wanted a cheap beater and I checked out Agile, Xaviere and Alden. I went with the Xaviere. I changed the tuners and thats all it needed. Its unbelieveable and totaly gig worthy for 250. I thought the Agile didn't sound as good and would need pup swaps. I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole just to make a cheap guitar worth it. Played decently and narrowly beat out the Xaviere in the 'beauty' department. I felt the Alden was too expensive for what it was.

 

[smurfco]

They make my left arm tingle

 

[Danhedonia]

I love my Valkyrie, you watch your step, mister. mockery-035

All the excellent replies are very much appreciated. I didn't realize that the LP copies were so heavy - as a non-gigging person I wonder how much I'd care? One wonders if they'd get into "weight relief" :rolleyes: the way Gibson has? Or if you go in a certain direction (spalted?) maybe it's not dunked in 20 coats of weight-adding poly. I'd love a goldtop LP with P-90's, and really can't imagine getting a Gibson. When I got my US Deluxe NOS Strat, they had a goldtop LP studio with P-90's and it was a thoroughly unremarkable guitar for $899 on "blowout." Whenever I look at Gibson's pricing, 'blow out' is indeed a term that comes to mind, but more like where Henry can blow it out.

The SX line for me is about Fender copies, not Gibson copies. I really dig their color combos and design choices: matching headstocks; vintage colors; block inlay stuff. Squier does a lot of stuff like that, too, but they have fewer models / options. SX has a few transparent finish ash body basses that are appealing.

As time marches on and I settle into Amazon-Prime middle age, I'm much more comfortable dealing with anything that's mail order. Part of me really wants to bond with a guitar in person*, but when the cost differential is that pronounced, I can change my behavior (and have for other purchases).

* - @Virtual Pariah: I don't know if I can deeply bond with a guitar in a store, but I find that I can reject many in a minute or two. If something strikes my fancy, I'll typically sit with it for about 20-40 minutes, and go through some noodling that takes me up and down the fretboard. Do I have returns? I do - but for me it's more a process of elimination than a quick bonding session. I typically don't bond with a guitar until after I set it up and amplify it a few different ways (tube amps small and large / quiet and loud; solid state with and without tons of effects; through the iPad ------> stereo amplifier/tower speakers).

 

[mikesr1963]

The 3010 with P90 pickups I just got weights 9 pounds exactly. Website claims 10 pounds. Just Fyi stuff.

 

[jp_nyc]

All the excellent replies are very much appreciated. I didn't realize that the LP copies were so heavy - as a non-gigging person I wonder how much I'd care?

If you play sitting down it doesn’t matter. If anything a huge heavy body is a plus when sitting because it keeps the neck upright. If you play standing up it can get old quickly.

One wonders if they'd get into "weight relief" :rolleyes: the way Gibson has?

I think keeping the guitars heavy is a selling point for Agile. Internet wisdom is that moar wood = moar toanz. It also keeps their lineup simple. Models with simple drilled weight relief could easily double the size of Kurt’s LP style inventory. Add in chambered versions and the inventory triples. And with a bigger inventory Kurt would finally have to replace his piece of shit web site.

Or if you go in a certain direction (spalted?) maybe it's not dunked in 20 coats of weight-adding poly.

That’s just not how South Korea rolls. I can’t remember that last time I saw a new MIK guitar body that didn’t have a absurdly thick clearcoat.

I'd love a goldtop LP with P-90's, and really can't imagine getting a Gibson. When I got my US Deluxe NOS Strat, they had a goldtop LP studio with P-90's and it was a thoroughly unremarkable guitar for $899 on "blowout." Whenever I look at Gibson's pricing, 'blow out' is indeed a term that comes to mind, but more like where Henry can blow it out.

Track down used 70s Tribute with mini humbuckers and switch to P90s. I had one for a few years and it was a solid guitar. Heavy as hell, tho.

 

[Guitar Heel]

I owned an AL-2000 (I think that was the one), and it was a really nice guitar. It was setup well, and it looked great. But it was too heavy for me.

 

[sleewell]

I really like my AL 2000. great guitar.

 

[Kerouac]

I got an AL-2000 one year when they were blowing them out for $99. It was a great guitar, aside from the pickups which were pretty dull and the fact that it had a lot of gloss. For the first two years of teaching at LMA that was the electric I just left there.

 

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

I would say it is not possible to discuss Agile guitars, although single models would be OK, as they are not a guitar manufacturer, just a retail outlet who rebrands so many different guitars from different manufacturers.

 

[Virtual Pariah]

I would say it is not possible to discuss Agile guitars, although single models would be OK, as they6 are not a guitar manufacturer, just a retail outlet who rebrands so many different guitars from different manufacturers.

Except that wouldn't be true.
There's one manufacturer for the Agile models.

There is an SX line, Douglas line, a Sprite line, and a Hadean line that exist, they are MIC and MII and clearly labeled as their own brands.

It's all pretty much ODM at this point. But you do have to be aware of the manufacturer you choose and you manufacture to a price point. That helps maintain consistent quality.

It's the computer model taken into the world of wood and wire.

 

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

* Are they still primarily made in Korea? They used to say that on the website, but that info is conspicuously missing now.

Agile is still made at the Mirr factory in S. Korea. Last I heard (early 2016,) they are staying there because Mirr has the agility to handle smallish runs. Chapman guitars are made there also, and I believe the SK Eastwoods and Pure Salem stuff.

* Why WAS Agile such a lightning rod for flame wars? I really never got this.

Basically, because at the time they came out it was the start of the small batch mid-quality imports. Up until that time the non-MIA-MIJ stuff was considered pretty bad. Then you add in the QA issues that Gibson was going through and Agile happen to hit "right time/right product" and HC's word of mouth influence was at it's highest.

* Does anyone else feel that the design(s) are really much better than the 'originals?'
Not really. They have some good designs, some bad. But they were willing to experiment with colors that Gibson and their Subs wouldn't.


* Now that Agiles have been around a while, why haven't the forums lit up with tales about how they've aged? It's strange to me how all those flame-war veterans have just kind of gone away? I'm NOT seeking a revival of the flame wars, but it would be really interesting to hear from someone who has, say, owned an AL-2500 for 12 years to hear how they're getting on with their instruments.

I've had a couple for 7-8 years and they are holding up fine. Still Heavy guitars and my back isn't what it once was.
The wars ended because there are others in that market space now. Plus the entry level guitars have gotten better across the board. Rising QA and competition forced others to up their game.

* What do people think generally about the value structure of mail-order only? I have never seen an SX bass in the flesh, but if I did and it were comparable in quality to a Squier Vintage Modified, I can think of 2 or 3 I'd want to order right away. And I always get to wondering "is it really 60% of the Squier price just because they don't have a marketing machine?" As an analogy, the guys on Talkbass are all agog over Sire basses, who espouse the same approach.

The concept of mail order only never really bothered me. I can't get riled up about if the box from the container ship goes on a wall or comes directly to me, as long as the return policy is fair.
Plus, I've never gotten a good feel for a guitar with a 10min in store sit-down session. I need to work the instrument to fit me anyway.

As for the marketing? Yeah. You do pay for the brand at some level. Think of it as insurance against resale. A Squier will resell higher than a comparable Agile.

Quite a bit of factual inexactitude here, some Agiles originally came from Saein Corporation (Korea), then the Chinese Saein or Shine guitars started turning up branded as Douglas.

Also many of Chapmans better guitars came from the same factory as PRS SEs, World Music International

 

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Except that wouldn't be true.
There's one manufacturer for the Agile models.

I don't know about now, refer to my previous answer much of Agiles range were unsold Shines (Saein Corporation)

 

[Virtual Pariah]

I'm almost positive that Chapman is using Mirr. Or was using them up till the ghost fret.

Edit,
Found the video of Rob at WMI so I'm wrong about that one. I stand by the Agile manufacturer though.

Can't speak on the shines, that's before my time.