The 2016 Formula One Thread.

Not too exciting a race except for the first lap. Hamilton recovered well from 10th to finish 2nd, with Kimi rounding out the podium. Great day for Williams, with Bottas 4th and Massa 5th.

Kvyat punted Vettel on the first corner, then hit Vettel again two corners later and knocked him out of the race. Definitely Kvyat's fault for the first hit, but there wasn't much he could do to avoid the second as Vettel slowed unexpectedly mid-turn. Kvyat got a 10 second stop-and-go and 3 points on his license. Gutierrez and Sainz also got two points each.

Grosjean finished 8th!
 
Yeah, Kvyat might want to steer clear of Seb for quite a while. I have never heard Vettel go on an expletive filled tirade over the radio, and that was BEFORE he knew who the culprit was. Hopefully all stays quiet on the Western Front. I'd hate for them to go all "Enemy at the gates" on one another.

Excited for Williams. Also for Grosjean/HAAS and Alonso/Button/McLaren. Even one of the Renault cars showing some serious pace ahead of a widely rumored mid-season complete swap of the Internal Combustion motor to one with significant power gains.

It just seems like whenever anybody gets within 1 second of the Silver Arrows during practice or Quali, the team just turns the knob on the go - fast panel another click and mitigates any threat of actual competition. Bastards.
 
Botox sucks. This is the second race he's caused problems for Hamilton. I wonder how much Nico is paying him.
 
It was nice to see McLaren get a double points finish.
It's no wonder Toto Wolff wants to keep the rules as they are. Mercedes are untouchable. I still think they are sandbagging and there is even more pace than they have shown. They claim that Rosberg's car had a problem with the MGU-K, but he still managed fastest lap at the end of the race. Ferrari are about where they were last year in comparison to Mercedes. Sure they are faster than last year in terms of pace, but Mercedes still has the 0.5 s gap.
 
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TomcatMF said:
It was nice to see McLaren get a double points finish.
It's no wonder Toto Wolff wants to keep the rules as they are. Mercedes are untouchable. I still think they are sandbagging and there is even more pace than they have shown. They claim that Rosberg's car had a problem with the MGU-K, but he still managed fastest lap at the end of the race. Ferrari are about where they were last year in comparison to Mercedes. Sure they are faster than last year in terms of pace, but Mercedes still has the 0.5 s gap.
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Yup. The Mercs are sandbagging like Mofos. Nobody wants to see spec racing, but no one wants to watch the same duo of cars pull out a 38 second lead over the next podium position in a 53 lap race either. It's killing the sport.

The rules need a major overhaul. We can't keep having these constant 3-4 year dynasty runs by the one team that got lucky enough to field the fast car under the current regs while the remaining teams fight over table scraps.
How many fans have jumped ship in the last 8 years while Red Bull ran amok over the pack for four years before handing the baton off to Mercedes to do the same thing?

Too many.

And teams that would like to enter or re-enter F1 competition have zero motivation to do so. I'm so glad HAAS stuck with it, but they are a rare example of a team/group with the money and knowledge to make the effort. When Audi and BMW say a collective "fuck you" to the FIA because they don't think they can legitimately compete, something has to change.
 
OGG said:
Yup. The Mercs are sandbagging like Mofos. Nobody wants to see spec racing, but no one wants to watch the same duo of cars pull out a 38 second lead over the next podium position in a 53 lap race either. It's killing the sport.

The rules need a major overhaul. We can't keep having these constant 3-4 year dynasty runs by the one team that got lucky enough to field the fast car under the current regs while the remaining teams fight over table scraps.
How many fans have jumped ship in the last 8 years while Red Bull ran amok over the pack for four years before handing the baton off to Mercedes to do the same thing?

Too many.

And teams that would like to enter or re-enter F1 competition have zero motivation to do so. I'm so glad HAAS stuck with it, but they are a rare example of a team/group with the money and knowledge to make the effort. When Audi and BMW say a collective "fuck you" to the FIA because they don't think they can legitimately compete, something has to change.
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IMO the Red Bull years for the most part were not nearly as bad as what we have now. At least then other teams could catch up. McLaren was able to match their pace several times, but they screwed themselves with poor reliability, driver and pit stop errors. Don't forget that 2012 had different winners in the first 7 races, and the 2012 USGP was epic when Hamilton ran down Vettel and passed him in the race, and Alonso was in the hunt for WDC in the last race, but Ferrari cost him the title when they bungled the strategy. 2013 was a throwaway season because of the big changes for 2014 most of the teams quit developing their cars early in that season to concentrate on the next year. At that time it was entirely in the teams hands to come up with a solution that could beat the front runners.

This current formula is a total disaster IMO. The engines are an amazing piece of technology, but have really done nothing to improve the sport, and in reality now that is what is preventing more vendors from trying enter into the fray. Honda's struggles show just how difficult these things are to design and deploy. Plus the limited testing and the stupid token system make it nearly impossible for anyone to correct a design flaw made during the off season, and the teams themselves have absolutely no control over this. These power units are far too complicated for most anyone to build now.

I think they should have just stuck with the formula they had from 2010-2013. By 2012 it was really starting to come together, there was no need to change it. They only did it so they could appear "green", and they are still on that stupid fucking agenda which is the opposite of what F1 is supposed to be about. F1 is the embodiment of excess, speed and performance. It is a sprint to the finish.

We'll see what the changes for next year bring. Apparently there are regs to bring more parity to the engines, something long overdue. They also are going to have bigger tires (more mechanical grip) and more downforce (something that might make overtaking more difficult than it already is) but the cars will be going 5 seconds a lap faster than they do now. At the very least we should see some lap records fall which will be cool to see.
 
Flatspotter said:
Not too exciting a race except for the first lap. Hamilton recovered well from 10th to finish 2nd, with Kimi rounding out the podium. Great day for Williams, with Bottas 4th and Massa 5th.

Kvyat punted Vettel on the first corner, then hit Vettel again two corners later and knocked him out of the race. Definitely Kvyat's fault for the first hit, but there wasn't much he could do to avoid the second as Vettel slowed unexpectedly mid-turn. Kvyat got a 10 second stop-and-go and 3 points on his license. Gutierrez and Sainz also got two points each.

Grosjean finished 8th!
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This is how I saw the start of the race:

Vettel shot out and went right, all the way across the track, got bottled up at the turn and caused all the cars behind him (who did not expect him to dive bomb the first corner in such an amateurish fashion) to check up frantically. Unfortunately, Kyvat was not able to stop in time and hit him. Then Vettel, in an attempt to make up for his continued brain farts, tried to crowd Kyvat again while attempting to overcome his poor driving.

Sorry, I find it hard to fault Kyvat for Vettel's, quite frankly, piss-poor driving the past two weeks. He is driving like a rookie.

Perhaps Ferrari is putting all its hopes upon his shoulders and pressuring him to win a few. Maybe they have threatened to pull his contract, or kill his dog, if he does not win a certain number of races this year. His driving is not reflective of the Vettel of old, and his outburst could indicate other pressures.

Kyvat got screwed to protect Vettel.
 
The problem with the engine regulations is that teams are very restricted in what they can do to improve their engines. This results in Mercedes, who got it right from the start, enjoying a huge advantage that other teams can't do much about. They're talking about ditching the token system next year, so that will help with parity, but I still hate these engines. They're too complicated, and they sound like shit. It's not just a matter of volume, they just don't sound like race engines. F1 needs engines that have that high-pitched banshee wail like the V8s and V10s did.
 
Rick 381 said:
My favorite comment,

Look what happens when maldonado leaves lol. Everyone else looks bad.
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A fair point.

Not sure how I feel about the decision, but it is their decision to make. Kvyat has great potential but is also a bit wild. Much like a younger Romain Grosjean.

In terms of him running over Vettel twice on the opening lap, I have heard people argue that Seb gave him nowhere to go. I call bullshit on that. Seb was racing, Seb was in the racing line, and Seb was ahead. It's as simple as that. If you run up the back of the car ahead of you, it's your fault 99.9% of the time. Seb wouldn't have been in his way if someone else was not in his own way. Vettel did what he needed to do to keep from hitting the car in his way, the onus was then on Daniil to do the same.

He went in guns blazing on both occasions and took out a competitor by being a cowboy. F1 isn't NASCAR. That shit doesn't fly in F1, nor should it. Open wheels and open cockpits are not made for "Swappin' paint".
 
OGG said:
A fair point.

Not sure how I feel about the decision, but it is their decision to make. Kvyat has great potential but is also a bit wild. Much like a younger Romain Grosjean.

In terms of him running over Vettel twice on the opening lap, I have heard people argue that Seb gave him nowhere to go. I call bullshit on that. Seb was racing, Seb was in the racing line, and Seb was ahead. It's as simple as that. If you run up the back of the car ahead of you, it's your fault 99.9% of the time. Seb wouldn't have been in his way if someone else was not in his own way. Vettel did what he needed to do to keep from hitting the car in his way, the onus was then on Daniil to do the same.

He went in guns blazing on both occasions and took out a competitor by being a cowboy. F1 isn't NASCAR. That shit doesn't fly in F1, nor should it. Open wheels and open cockpits are not made for "Swappin' paint".
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The swap has less to do with Kvyat's incidents and more to do with keeping Verstappen from going to another team. His contract was a 2 year +1 option year if he was promoted to the Red Bull team. If not he would be a free agent, and it is said that Ferrari offered him a seat.
 
TomcatMF said:
The swap has less to do with Kvyat's incidents and more to do with keeping Verstappen from going to another team. His contract was a 2 year +1 option year if he was promoted to the Red Bull team. If not he would be a free agent, and it is said that Ferrari offered him a seat.
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This is the most believable theory to me. Kvyat's missteps in Sochi are just a convenient excuse for Red Bull to promote Verstappen. I don't expect to see Kvyat in a Red Bull much more this year.
 
OGG said:
A fair point.

Not sure how I feel about the decision, but it is their decision to make. Kvyat has great potential but is also a bit wild. Much like a younger Romain Grosjean.

In terms of him running over Vettel twice on the opening lap, I have heard people argue that Seb gave him nowhere to go. I call bullshit on that. Seb was racing, Seb was in the racing line, and Seb was ahead. It's as simple as that. If you run up the back of the car ahead of you, it's your fault 99.9% of the time. Seb wouldn't have been in his way if someone else was not in his own way. Vettel did what he needed to do to keep from hitting the car in his way, the onus was then on Daniil to do the same.

He went in guns blazing on both occasions and took out a competitor by being a cowboy. F1 isn't NASCAR. That shit doesn't fly in F1, nor should it. Open wheels and open cockpits are not made for "Swappin' paint".
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Sorry, disagree. There are rules about dive-bombing, blocking and protecting for a reason. Vettel was not racing, he was being an entitled bitch and when he got caught with his pants down he knew he was going to be backed up by his 4 WC trophies.

Vettel cut across his line and the inside line, without having a legitimate opening, expecting everyone else to "recognize" his position, thus ceding it to him. No one should expect to have to check-up in a millionth of a second because another is depending on his history to defend the very same actions we excoriated Crashtor for.

As far as the second incident, Vettel has more of a legitimate gripe, but it is tenable at best. He again took position and then expected following traffic to check up, lickety-split, and catch the blame when they hit him.

Again: Maldonado does that and he is an idiot while Vettel does it and he is a four-time WC who knows how to drive?

Vettel is relying upon his history to judge his actions and he knows most other drivers will catch hell for the stupid moves he makes.
 
2112 said:
Sorry, disagree. There are rules about dive-bombing, blocking and protecting for a reason. Vettel was not racing, he was being an entitled bitch and when he got caught with his pants down he knew he was going to be backed up by his 4 WC trophies.

Vettel cut across his line and the inside line, without having a legitimate opening, expecting everyone else to "recognize" his position, thus ceding it to him. No one should expect to have to check-up in a millionth of a second because another is depending on his history to defend the very same actions we excoriated Crashtor for.

As far as the second incident, Vettel has more of a legitimate gripe, but it is tenable at best. He again took position and then expected following traffic to check up, lickety-split, and catch the blame when they hit him.

Again: Maldonado does that and he is an idiot while Vettel does it and he is a four-time WC who knows how to drive?

Vettel is relying upon his history to judge his actions and he knows most other drivers will catch hell for the stupid moves he makes.
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I would be much more agreeable with this premise if the incidents took place at a point in the race and on the track where there were gaps to work with and lines to choose that weren't impeded by traffic. Unfortunately, this was lap 1, turn 1 and turn 2. Total mayhem, and the entire field compacted together and desperately jockeying for positions. You have the only point in the race where fast cars and slow cars or quick and not so quick cars are all bunched up and under full acceleration. Those "rules" are moot at that point.

In Crashtor's case, yes. He did that shit, but he did it mid-race and for an inexplicable number of reasons only he knows. That dude was death on wheels.
 
OGG said:
I would be much more agreeable with this premise if the incidents took place at a point in the race and on the track where there were gaps to work with and lines to choose that weren't impeded by traffic. Unfortunately, this was lap 1, turn 1 and turn 2. Total mayhem, and the entire field compacted together and desperately jockeying for positions. You have the only point in the race where fast cars and slow cars or quick and not so quick cars are all bunched up and under full acceleration. Those "rules" are moot at that point.

In Crashtor's case, yes. He did that shit, but he did it mid-race and for an inexplicable number of reasons only he knows. That dude was death on wheels.
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Problem is that there were no gaps to work with at the start of the race, or in the second episode. Vettel threaded the needle on both occasions by taking risky and, ultimately, stupid chances that the drivers behind would be able to check up in time for his antics to work.

Vettel dive-bombed the first turn knowing he would either:

1) Go off-track which would cost him places while he waited for a gap to re-enter, or be penalized for causing a crash in the first turn,
2) Shoot the gap, knowing he did not have position, and hope the following drivers were able to use superhuman abilities to recognize, and avoid, contact. If they were not able to (which he knew they would not do, he merely hoped that he would not be collected in the resulting mayhem) he could bitch and whine about unprofessional drivers knowing his history would back him up,
3) Get collected in a multi-car incident of which he could be at fault. This would be the lesser of the evils but he was, again, counting on the reactions of the other drivers to save him from his own stupid move. He would argue against any penalty, and reaction to any contact, by holding up his four WC trophies.

Fact is that no one makes a move like Vettel did without causing mayhem with the following cars. Every first-turn incident is due to some driver doing something like Vettel did, counting on the drivers behind him to check up. They do but at the expense of broken carbon fiber and flat tires. Vettel just lost his gamble, looked bad doing it, lost his cool and tried another stupid move and was put out by damage he caused on his own.

Can't blame another driver for your failure to follow the rules of passing and positioning in a race. Unless, of course, you are a driver like Vettel.
 
2112 said:
Problem is that there were no gaps to work with at the start of the race, or in the second episode. Vettel threaded the needle on both occasions by taking risky and, ultimately, stupid chances that the drivers behind would be able to check up in time for his antics to work.

Vettel dive-bombed the first turn knowing he would either:

1) Go off-track which would cost him places while he waited for a gap to re-enter, or be penalized for causing a crash in the first turn,
2) Shoot the gap, knowing he did not have position, and hope the following drivers were able to use superhuman abilities to recognize, and avoid, contact. If they were not able to (which he knew they would not do, he merely hoped that he would not be collected in the resulting mayhem) he could bitch and whine about unprofessional drivers knowing his history would back him up,
3) Get collected in a multi-car incident of which he could be at fault. This would be the lesser of the evils but he was, again, counting on the reactions of the other drivers to save him from his own stupid move. He would argue against any penalty, and reaction to any contact, by holding up his four WC trophies.

Fact is that no one makes a move like Vettel did without causing mayhem with the following cars. Every first-turn incident is due to some driver doing something like Vettel did, counting on the drivers behind him to check up. They do but at the expense of broken carbon fiber and flat tires. Vettel just lost his gamble, looked bad doing it, lost his cool and tried another stupid move and was put out by damage he caused on his own.

Can't blame another driver for your failure to follow the rules of passing and positioning in a race. Unless, of course, you are a driver like Vettel.
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Ya see?

Almost everything you wrote is true. However, in the end, you wrapped my whole point up in a nice pretty bow. After first stating that no one would do what he did (the only incorrect statement), you concluded with the fact that virtually all 1st incidents are caused by precisely that same sort of action. One week it might be Sergio, another week it might be Kimi or Kvyat, or Ricciardo. This time it was Vettel. Should he know better? Yeah, they all should, but that all goes back perfectly to what I wrote about the mayhem of Race Start.

I'm not a Vettel fan by any stretch. I dislike him far less now than I used to, because he's no longer the golden boy, he has matured quite a bit, and as much as it pains my heart to acknowledge, he's a pretty amazing driver. I was quick to give all of the credit for WDC trophies to Adrian Newey and Team Red Bull simply building an unstoppable car, but it's clear now that he is legit. I love Mark Webber, but looking back on the Vettel/Webber years now, Sebastian laid the wood to him in an identical car. He is emerging as a guy much like Alonso in that he can somehow squeeze more from a car than the sum of its parts. Perhaps that also makes him slightly reckless... maybe.

Anyway, if it was anybody else, would you feel as strongly?
 
Marchionne said this week, "I expect us to win shortly, starting with Spain."

Arrivabene may be looking for a job on Monday.
 
Ferrari has long been their own worst enemy. They lost the championships in 2010 and 2012 by poor strategy, and every other year they have struggled to build a truly competitive car, and they had the same issues before Brawn and Todt got them straightened out during the Schumacher years. It's a cultural thing with that team that goes way back. I think the movie Rush captured it nicely in the scene where Niki Lauda drives their car for the first time and calls it a "shit box". The reaction from the mechanics "you can't say that about a Ferrari!" is something very ingrained in that organization. Too much pride, and when things don't go the way they expect heads are chopped.

Personally I think Arrivabene is doing a good job as TP, and the last thing they need now is a big shake up. At least let him finish out the season. Mercedes seem to be unbeatable, but it is said that the reliability issues they are suffering may be due to having the push things harder than they had in testing when they did those long reliability runs. If that is the case, then Ferrari could really take the fight to Mercedes and keep pushing them, possibly forcing more DNF's or making them dial back the engine a bit to save them thus closing the gap in pace. It's way too early to hit the panic button now.
 
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