Chicken and an egg: getting tight as a band without a singer

B

BrammyH

Grandpa Whine
So, I'm getting a band together. Got drums, guitars, and bass. No effing singer. We sound like complete amateur hour after one rehearsal without a singer. Missed queues, everyone a little lost, even thought we know the songs on our own.

So, we need to take out a CL add for a singer, but the current state of our gaggle is going to scare away anyone.

So, I'm open for ideas. I've tried singing and playing the guitar, but in addition to being able to sing to save my life (or a band), I can't sing and play at the same time. If I could even half-way sing, I'd invest the energy in learning to sing and play at the same time.

I really feel like a chicken or the egg in this.
 
Everyone needs to know the words and know where they are in the song. Its helpful later because you can sing backup and already know what to do.
 
As HIAR said it helps to know the words for background vocals and it also helps to know where you are at in the song. Remember to always follow the vocalist, not the vocalist follow the musicians.

As for adding a singer or not, are there two guitarists in your band? If so, you don't have to play all the time that you are singing. If only one, struggle through it until you find somebody. Everyone will need to woodshed as the search for a good vocalist will take time so why not do it yourself in the time being.
 
Hard as it may be, I'd recommend trying to get the songs down tighter without a singer. If this is your band, you need make sure you're heading the way you want before you bring in the ego of a singer. Because otherwise, you're asking someone else to come in and lead.

Maybe you're not as bad a singer as you think you are? Or maybe your current bandmates could do some vocals as well? Between the three of you, you might have enough range to do what you want... providing you're not covering something like "Bohemian Rhapsody."
 
Well, we did Free World by Neil Young and the drummer's comment was "You're right, you can't sing at all"

I proposed we try it again with one of us singing, or just make sure we've done our fucking homework and know the changes.
 
BrammyH said:
Well, we did Free World by Neil Young and the drummer's comment was "You're right, you can't sing at all"

I proposed we try it again with one of us singing, or just make sure we've done our fucking homework and know the changes.
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Neil Young can't sing either.

Keep trying - that is what practice is for. Doo eet enough and you will get better.
 
I would find it hard to keep track without vocals myself. Whatever you do, do not post three consecutive Craigslist ads titled "Looking for vox"... :rolleyes: o_O :facepalm:
 
There could be several issues here. First, can your drummer keep a steady beat, and if so, does everyone understand that the drummer can simplify his playing to offer a clear 1 & 3 on the bass, and a clear 2 & 4 on the snare? In the band that I play drums for, it took a while for everyone to understand what the drums offer. In addition, I listen closely to the rhythm guitarist, who can sometimes wander in his tempo. When he does, I stay with him and make sure the rest of the band stays together.

When I hear that a band is not tight, I can be pretty sure that the bandmates are not listening to each other. Each member has to know their part well enough to not have to think about it. Then they can concentrate on staying with the others.
 
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yeah,

In fairness, we've had exactly one rehearsal. That rehearsal was more of "Ok, do you know this song?" rehearsal. So, it was loose.

The quandary is, the drummer doesn't want to proceed until we get a singer. He also wants the singer to pretty much dictate the song list (which I'm ok with. We have had enough issues marrying singers to songlists).
The bass player wants to make sure we get songs down before we look for a singer. I tend to agree with him.
Of the two guitarists, I knew the songs better than the other one (this week) so me dropping off the song isn't an option.
My feeling is, this is rock and roll; not classical music. Waiting for a singer is a lazy way of transferring the time keeping to the singer. If we know that the verse is 8 bars, play for 8 bars and go into the chorus.
 
BrammyH said:
yeah,

In fairness, we've had exactly one rehearsal. That rehearsal was more of "Ok, do you know this song?" rehearsal. So, it was loose.

The quandary is, the drummer doesn't want to proceed until we get a singer. He also wants the singer to pretty much dictate the song list (which I'm ok with. We have had enough issues marrying singers to songlists).
The bass player wants to make sure we get songs down before we look for a singer. I tend to agree with him.
Of the two guitarists, I knew the songs better than the other one (this week) so me dropping off the song isn't an option.
My feeling is, this is rock and roll; not classical music. Waiting for a singer is a lazy way of transferring the time keeping to the singer. If we know that the verse is 8 bars, play for 8 bars and go into the chorus.
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Seems as though you already know that answer BH. A good singer wants to come into a semi to polished band unless he is a friend. Sadly, you may end up looking for a new drummer if that dude is looking for a singer first.

While true about the singer dictating the material, you want to be prepared rather with some playing time among all of you. Like you mentioned, it was loose. If you guys get tight and have a good working relationship, the singer will need to fit and impress you guys in order to join.

Remember that while you are auditioning them, they are auditioning you as well.
 
Your drummer is wrong about not doing anything until you have a singer. If the band can't play something reasonably well when you audition a singer, no singer is going to join. You may well scrap the entire setlist in favour of the singer's choices once they are in, but the band has to be up to scratch enough to get them in first.

While you're getting to that stage, I think you and the other guitarist need to look at handling some vocals between you just to help with the practice routine at least. Good luck.
 
Modern Saint said:
Sadly, you may end up looking for a new drummer if that dude is looking for a singer first.

While true about the singer dictating the material, you want to be prepared rather with some playing time among all of you. Like you mentioned, it was loose. If you guys get tight and have a good working relationship, the singer will need to fit and impress you guys in order to join.

Remember that while you are auditioning them, they are auditioning you as well.
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It's still something we're talking through as a group, and I'm sympathetic to all involved parties. It does, however, remain a sticking point.

I took out a CL ad and got one response. The bass player is also looking for a singer.

I'm just working on learning my shit at this point.
 
Maybe you should spend some time on songs that you can get isolated vocal tracks to play along with. It’s not ideal, but it’s something.
 
Just to get a differing opinion in there, you might be better off finding a silverback singer who can grow along with you. It's hard to add a new guy, especially if this is a get together for fun thing, after the group culture has developed.
 
jp_nyc said:
Maybe you should spend some time on songs that you can get isolated vocal tracks to play along with. It’s not ideal, but it’s something.
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Makes the most sense to me. Or, make a backing track of you just singing, one or two songs.
 
The band idea seems bigger than the players at the moment, from the read on it I get so far. You claim you can't sing and play at the same time and your drummer thinks a singer will be the nerve center who pulls the band together. Not a good start.

I think you're right about getting your own skills up to parr for the band. When you claim you can't sing is that simply a coordination issue between playing and singing at the same time, or is it a confidence matter in your ability to sing at all? The first will work itself out naturally. The second will get better when the first one is in the bag. Then you'll satisfy the drummer's conundrum as well. I say with your enthusiasm you will play the biggest part in bringing it all together.
 
I can't sing to safe my life. It's not something I really want to learn to do either, I'd rather focus on my guitar playing.
 
So, in the end it was the documentary about @OGG that helped me decide. He had a vision and put up with suffering to get there.

We can't find a singer, and the bass player's email of "Lets just jam at the next rehearsal" has gone unanswered by the drummer. The bass player lives an hour away, and wants to find a college-age singer closer to the big city. I'm almost 50 and I live on the edge of two CL zones (Boston and Worcester). He and I did discuss moving on with a different drummer.

While the project isn't officially dead, I think I'm going back to the other guitar player and I figuring out what to do, getting our shit together, and early next year shopping our talents.

I'm too old to play music I'm not 100% behind.
 
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